1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Interim Rules Announcement - ARO Declarations, Skill Requirements, CC ARO baiting etc.

Discussion in 'Rules' started by ijw, Mar 29, 2021.

  1. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Corvus Belli are currently on vacation and will look at these issues in detail when they return.

    With that in mind:



    ARO Declaration and Validity - Intended Mechanic

    In N4, AROs are not triggered by specific events and situations like they were in N3. Instead, you declare your AROs, and later on you find out if they were/became valid.

    Implications - concepts like a distinct 'Zone of Control ARO' don't exist in the way they did in N3. There are just 'generic' AROs which are either:
    • Were valid because during the Order the Active Trooper is/was in your ZoC, you got hit by a template etc,
    • Not become valid, and the ARO becomes an Idle.


    Skill Requirements - Intended Mechanic

    In a similar way, N4 Skill Requirements are not preconditions for declaring a Skill. Instead, they are checked during the Resolution step.

    Implications - Skills are not restricted by the situation when the Skill is declared, so a Skill declaration can either:
    • Be fulfilled during the Order when you check the Requirements in the Resolution step,
    • Not be fulfilled, and the Skill becomes an Idle.


    ‘ARO Baiting’, Silhouette Contact Requirements - Temporary Ruling
    The FAQ places a restriction on Line of Fire Skills, saying that their Requirements must be fulfilled when declaring the Skill. This has led to an unintentional interaction allowing a CC-Move Order to bypass reactive shooting.

    As a TEMPORARY RULING:
    ***Silhouette contact Requirements must be fulfilled when declaring Skills.***




    A Personal Note

    When I discuss these things, I'm not making rules changes unless it’s marked as a rules change/provisional ruling. I'm presenting the implications of the N4 rules and how they changed from N3.

    So don't shoot the messenger. ;-)
     
    Danimoth, Savnock, wisefaiz and 44 others like this.
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,294
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    Thankyou @ijw your work is appreciated.
     
  3. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,349
    Likes Received:
    2,533
  4. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    1,781
    Thank you for everything!
     
  5. Zhukov2

    Zhukov2 Active Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    30
    Awesome! Thank you.
     
  6. mattbab

    mattbab Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    19
    Thank you for the answer.
     
  7. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    856
    Likes Received:
    1,531
    thx @ijw for your work
     
  8. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    630
    Cheers for all of this man!

    Also, sorry to be a bother but can this be placed in the provisional ruling section of the rules forum?
     
    Lesh' likes this.
  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    I've asked if a shadow copy can be put there, as moving the original post there will stop anyone from being able to reply.
     
    kinginyellow and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  10. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    3,456
    I haven't thought through all the implications, but at least at first glance, this seems like a good rule from a consistency and clarity perspective. I like it.

    I would phrase it as:
    - Requirements which can be checked at declaration, must be checked at declaration. This includes LoF and s2s Requirements.
    - ZoC and hacking area Requirements can't be checked at declaration (due to the rule against premeasuring), therefore they're checked at Resolution.

    In any case, regardless of my personal opinion of the temporary rule, thank you as always @ijw !
     
    Savnock, Mogra and Diphoration like this.
  11. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    951
    Likes Received:
    3,128
  12. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    630
    That makes perfect sense and better way to do it. Thanks.
     
    Omen likes this.
  13. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,294
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    *sigh* Sorry @ijw but I've already seen claims this ruling prevents a trooper moving out to touch an objective then back into cover with their first skill, then Declaring Activate with their second skill. My understanding is that this would be allowed by the All At Once rule (because the trooper is considered to everywhere along it's movement at once).
     
    Lesh' and Lightforge like this.
  14. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    951
    Likes Received:
    3,128
    It works fine with the All At Once rule, just like moving across a hallway and firing (or being fired at) half-way through. That just sounds like someone trying to be pedantic.
     
  15. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,335
    Likes Received:
    1,982
    We can’t punish the guilty if you can’t identify them. >-:)

    If you declare Move first, then you can declare a silhouette-contact along your movement path. What you can’t do is declare it the other way around (it’s not 2nd edition for Exrah’s sake).
     
  16. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    5,885
    Likes Received:
    11,260
    I am questioning here, I assume the objective is one that needs to be destroyed with CC attack? does the engaged state apply to such objectives?
     
  17. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,349
    Likes Received:
    2,533
    I think the objectives here are antennas and using the "Activate Communication Antenna" Short Skill in ITS missions.

    upload_2021-3-29_17-49-47.png
     
  18. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    4,191
    *sigh*

    Just for my confirmation;

    I'm a JSA player in reactive turn and have Mushashi turn facing down my opponent's Andromeda. Andromeda moves to within my Mushashi's LOF and probable ZOC.

    Mushashi cannot declare CC attack because he is not in silhouette contact and no precondition has been met to allow him to declare a CC attack otherwise, so he declares another skill (dodge, BS attack, etc).

    Andromeda then declares Guard, after Mushashi is forced to give up his chance to declare a CC attack that might have dissuaded her from doing so.

    Correct?
     
    Hachiman Taro, paraelix and inane.imp like this.
  19. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    951
    Likes Received:
    3,128
    The guard rules themselves correct the issue:
    • Both the user and the target can perform Skills and apply MODs and CC Special Skills that require Silhouette Contact.
    EDIT: Re-read what you're saying. You appear to be correct, Mushashi cannot CC attack for his ARO.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  20. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    4,191
    Not the end of the world, since CC attack as a speculative ARO would usually just attract a volley of SMG fire, but useful to know.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation