What ?! CC attack without being on base contact ? Is it for real ? O-o What about using something called "common sense" ? Does this sound like an immersive gameplay experience to you ?
"You hear heavy footsteps approaching from around the corner, and the unmistakable *shiiink* of a blade being drawn." "I draw my sword and stand ready to defend myself!" I'm not a huge fan of the interaction either, but from the perspective of immersive gameplay I'm not sure I see the problem. The cc attacks only actually happen if the troopers reach base to base.
This greatly lowers my valuation of TAG. Applying mono CC to them is a lot easier now, even if the ARM roll are easier than N3. I really like the pre-emptive ARO declaration, but the fact that some ARO are arbitrarily forbidden (BS Attack) is really silly and makes no sense. It gives the feeling that we’re just tying ourselves to unforeseen wording decisions that end up just warping the game.
Yeah, that's one of my chief issues with the answers / FAQs we're getting. They're mostly deciphering the RAW instead of making RAW conform to RAI.
Please tell me how this goes. Because I did not come to this conclusion as I was thinking in reactive player terms but you are right as this can be manipulated by the active trooper and makes cc models extremely strong. Cheers for sharing, this is solid.
Thanks, it wasn't clear from the first text that you were using this to cross LoF, rather than everyone being in smoke.
Stealth says that can't happen, following the same logic as was used in N3. If you're just going to shit up the game with needlessly complicated gotcha rules we have a problem.
The fourth bullet point doesn't apply, you already 'failed' the second bullet that stops Move from generating an ARO in the first place: If the user declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies and stays outside their LoF, he does not grant AROs to those enemies. The Line of Fire rules. Troopers engaged in CC have a 360˚ LoF, but only to whatever they are in Silhouette contact with. Therefore, Troopers engaged in CC cannot draw LoF to Troopers or game elements that they are not in Silhouette contact with. Did you not read the rest of the thread?
OK, as you're editing posts... The N3 Stealth bullet contained 'even if he reaches base contact with them'. That text was removed.
It's slightly off-topic, but might be better than re-opening another thread that will end up sprouting the same conversations. But what makes it so BS Attack cannot be preemptively declared like the other AROs (ZoC, CC)?
This is great! Next time someone mov-movs into cc with one of my troopers from behind, I'll get a normal roll CC Attack against them, and they probably won't realize it because the same rules are interpreted differently in N4 than in N3! Man, I'm so masterful and such a better player than someone who doesn't read these forums!
They'll realize it because when they propose to do it, you'll tell them, so that they can make a different play instead.
...nor read the rules. I mean, I get it, reading the rules as a blank slate is cumbersome, but seems like you've done an assumption about the rule not changing significantly and as a result didn't read the rules properly. Both you and your opponents need to be ready for this during your first several games that you'll make mistakes because you're so inundated with N3 rules knowledge that you miss the changes. Just work with each other to bring up the alterations you've become aware of. Or play N3. That's valid, too.
Or once they declared the first Move and you say "ARO CC", they'll wonder why and you can explain to them why! (I understand the issue you're trying to raise though, and I think that if every single ARO behaved the same way and every possible requirements of every possible ARO was checked at resolution there would be no issue. The biggest issue is the inconsistency between how every ARO are treated imo.)
If the Stealth rules are intended to only function fully in a zero-vis zone, it should say that. Somehow I don't think that was the intent. Yeah, edited it before your post even hit since I was still reading. But I'm guessing the bit about gaining 360 LoF wasn't really intended given the changes to CC attack to not need LoF. If you removed that bit everything would still function fine.
This should've been resolved by a design document from CB being released immediately upon edition switch to N4, listing all N3 to N4 changes (especially such obscure and arcane ones) in both rule wording and interpretations. Because it wasn't, here we are, still trying to find out what changed and it seems some of it surprises even people on the Rules Team.
It's not infinitesimally short It's flat 0 Being the same point and all that as I explained you don't pass anything if your path from A to B is 0 that's what Silhouette CONTACT means I don't see any room for interpretation that supports your reading here. Completely ignoring the fact that not granting LOF to something in S contact is unintuitive, leads to ridiculous problems that shouldn't exist etc.
The implications of 360º LoF in Silhouette contact, and how that would affect a Move-Move Order, were discussed during editing. So yes, it's intended. That's why the 'even if he reaches base contact with them' text was removed. It's possible that the interaction of Stealth and Zero Visibility Zones wasn't intended by CB as that wasn't specifically discussed, but Zero Visibility Zones affecting the LoF of Troopers in Silhouette contact was discussed at other times.
