1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

CC attack allowed to be declared at a distance.

Discussion in 'Rules' started by kinginyellow, Mar 26, 2021.

  1. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    Classic ARO bait 2.0
     
    nazroth and Danger Rose like this.
  2. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    1,306
    What ?! CC attack without being on base contact ? Is it for real ? O-o

    What about using something called "common sense" ?

    Does this sound like an immersive gameplay experience to you ?
     
  3. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    3,456
    "You hear heavy footsteps approaching from around the corner, and the unmistakable *shiiink* of a blade being drawn."

    "I draw my sword and stand ready to defend myself!"

    I'm not a huge fan of the interaction either, but from the perspective of immersive gameplay I'm not sure I see the problem. The cc attacks only actually happen if the troopers reach base to base.
     
    inane.imp and Nuada Airgetlam like this.
  4. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    Sir, this is Infinity.
     
    Tristan228 likes this.
  5. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,349
    Likes Received:
    2,533
    This greatly lowers my valuation of TAG. Applying mono CC to them is a lot easier now, even if the ARM roll are easier than N3.

    I really like the pre-emptive ARO declaration, but the fact that some ARO are arbitrarily forbidden (BS Attack) is really silly and makes no sense. It gives the feeling that we’re just tying ourselves to unforeseen wording decisions that end up just warping the game.
     
  6. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    Yeah, that's one of my chief issues with the answers / FAQs we're getting. They're mostly deciphering the RAW instead of making RAW conform to RAI.
     
    Danger Rose and Diphoration like this.
  7. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    630
    Please tell me how this goes. Because I did not come to this conclusion as I was thinking in reactive player terms but you are right as this can be manipulated by the active trooper and makes cc models extremely strong.

    Cheers for sharing, this is solid.
     
    QueensGambit and Nuada Airgetlam like this.
  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Thanks, it wasn't clear from the first text that you were using this to cross LoF, rather than everyone being in smoke.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    Stealth says that can't happen, following the same logic as was used in N3. If you're just going to shit up the game with needlessly complicated gotcha rules we have a problem.
     
  10. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    The fourth bullet point doesn't apply, you already 'failed' the second bullet that stops Move from generating an ARO in the first place:
    • If the user declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies and stays outside their LoF, he does not grant AROs to those enemies.
    The Line of Fire rules.
    • Troopers engaged in CC have a 360˚ LoF, but only to whatever they are in Silhouette contact with. Therefore, Troopers engaged in CC cannot draw LoF to Troopers or game elements that they are not in Silhouette contact with.
    Did you not read the rest of the thread?
     
    inane.imp and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  11. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    OK, as you're editing posts... :face_with_rolling_eyes:

    The N3 Stealth bullet contained 'even if he reaches base contact with them'. That text was removed.
     
  12. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,349
    Likes Received:
    2,533
    It's slightly off-topic, but might be better than re-opening another thread that will end up sprouting the same conversations.

    But what makes it so BS Attack cannot be preemptively declared like the other AROs (ZoC, CC)?
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    This is great! Next time someone mov-movs into cc with one of my troopers from behind, I'll get a normal roll CC Attack against them, and they probably won't realize it because the same rules are interpreted differently in N4 than in N3! Man, I'm so masterful and such a better player than someone who doesn't read these forums!
     
  14. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    3,456
    They'll realize it because when they propose to do it, you'll tell them, so that they can make a different play instead.
     
    El tito Zylito, Lesh', radka and 5 others like this.
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    ...nor read the rules.

    I mean, I get it, reading the rules as a blank slate is cumbersome, but seems like you've done an assumption about the rule not changing significantly and as a result didn't read the rules properly. Both you and your opponents need to be ready for this during your first several games that you'll make mistakes because you're so inundated with N3 rules knowledge that you miss the changes.
    Just work with each other to bring up the alterations you've become aware of.

    Or play N3. That's valid, too.
     
  16. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,349
    Likes Received:
    2,533
    Or once they declared the first Move and you say "ARO CC", they'll wonder why and you can explain to them why!

    (I understand the issue you're trying to raise though, and I think that if every single ARO behaved the same way and every possible requirements of every possible ARO was checked at resolution there would be no issue. The biggest issue is the inconsistency between how every ARO are treated imo.)
     
    1337Bolshevik and inane.imp like this.
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    If the Stealth rules are intended to only function fully in a zero-vis zone, it should say that. Somehow I don't think that was the intent.

    Yeah, edited it before your post even hit since I was still reading. But I'm guessing the bit about gaining 360 LoF wasn't really intended given the changes to CC attack to not need LoF. If you removed that bit everything would still function fine.
     
    #37 Hecaton, Mar 26, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  18. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    This should've been resolved by a design document from CB being released immediately upon edition switch to N4, listing all N3 to N4 changes (especially such obscure and arcane ones) in both rule wording and interpretations.

    Because it wasn't, here we are, still trying to find out what changed and it seems some of it surprises even people on the Rules Team.
     
    inane.imp, Hecaton and Diphoration like this.
  19. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    It's not infinitesimally short
    It's flat 0
    Being the same point and all that as I explained
    you don't pass anything if your path from A to B is 0
    that's what Silhouette CONTACT means

    I don't see any room for interpretation that supports your reading here.


    Completely ignoring the fact that not granting LOF to something in S contact is unintuitive, leads to ridiculous problems that shouldn't exist etc.
     
    Diphoration and Hecaton like this.
  20. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    The implications of 360º LoF in Silhouette contact, and how that would affect a Move-Move Order, were discussed during editing. So yes, it's intended. That's why the 'even if he reaches base contact with them' text was removed.

    It's possible that the interaction of Stealth and Zero Visibility Zones wasn't intended by CB as that wasn't specifically discussed, but Zero Visibility Zones affecting the LoF of Troopers in Silhouette contact was discussed at other times.
     
    inane.imp and RobertShepherd like this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation