Locking out some MO profiles is definitely overly restrictive. The Santiago AD would have been a lot more interesting in Vanilla I think, same for the KC, who is IMO very unfitting and a waste of points in the context of MO. But, the Teuton as our buff Krakot or the well priced MMR KotHS do look very nice.
You are arguing that MO lacks flavour? Or that Vanilla PanOceania has so much that it doesn't need anything more?
I think more as a general design decision, unique profiles help differentiate a Sectorial from Vanilla without adding mercs or out of faction units.
And you think, in the specific case of MO, that this kind of restriction is needed? That MO needs help to be differentiated from Vanilla?
yeah it's better to have in vanilla a bazillion of random mercs than actual PanO units >< also name me one nomad or YJ unit (not profile I see you coming) that doesn't get into vanilla at this point it's nothing less than pushing ppl not to play vanilla PanO and that nothing about balance
Well, in the very case of MO, I don't find it out of context. MO are some sort of a mercenary force, after all, so I kind of understand they keep for themselves some units which exist already in a way in the regular army. Yes, I can get why it is frustrating to see a sectorial not sharing some of its most interesting units while 95% of the sectorials in this game are doing it. But well, SWF and VIRD, on the other hand, are sharing some of their profiles to Vanilla and the other sectorials using ORCs, which is quite unique, to say the least. And it's not like Vanilla is weak now. I don't think we need those units that much after all the nice changes we had with Acon and NCA.
Shasvastii do not share two units with vanilla, maybe this can be expanded in the future with other sectorials, not counting sectorials that mix units from other armies like Neoterra as an example.
I think faction-based, sectorial only units like the Gwailos and the Crosiers is a more interesting idea than imported from other faction units like the Deva in NCA or Scylla in SAA.
It's missing a lot of the units and tools that would make forgoing the movement and shooting efficiency of Fireteams desirable. Most of the forward options PanO has are kinda bad when compared with other factions' standbys, especially the key scoring Specialists, and mixed Fireteams have blown the direct firepower advantage PanO could employ on its solo units out of the competition. From what I've heard about the forums it's probably the second-best choice to CA if running a TAG, though.
with proper AVA like other vanilla factions and just trinitarians, vanilla would be competitive and a little more popular I'm playing vanilla in N4 atm and I'm winning games, because it's infinity, you can win with anything anyway I'm glad for the KotHS to be in vanilla at the very least
Played a 3 round tournament today, 8 players. Missions were Countermeasures, Quadrant Control and Firefight. For Countermeasures I ran this list Zw9taWxpdGFyeS1vcmRlcnMhVHVybmlyIENvdW50ZXJtZWFzdXJlcyBIb3NwaSBsaW5rgSwCAQsBBgEDAAIGAQcAA4XRAQEABBsBAgAFGAEFAAYeAQcAB4X3AQQACBMBAQAJJQEBAAoPAQcAC4YYAQIAAgIBEAEBAAKF9wEBAA== Played against Hasassins. Versatile 5 man link of "Ghulams" with Asawira, MSV2 AP Marksman Rifle, KHD, doctor and smoke. Al Jabel, some remotes, a Gazi and a Farzan. Went 9-4. Despite winning, I didn't like the list I ran. Hospitallers don't perform in a way I'd like them to, they don't really excell at anything in N4. The KoJ ML is decent, but very expensive, I couldn't really include as many weapon options as I wanted. Real stars of the game were Trinitarians. SMG is cheap and did something like 4 classified objectives, the MSR caught the opponent in an awkward spot and forced him ti play differently. Teuton is a nasty Lt, even when taken alone. Having an extra option for 2 orders in turn 2/3 with Lt is quite useful. I don't think I'll be trying to play the Hospi based lists any more. Game 2 was against Starco. Took this list, also for game 3. Zw9taWxpdGFyeS1vcmRlcnMkVHVybmlyIE1vIEZpcmVmaWdodC9RdWFkcmFudCBDb250cm9sgSwCAQoBhhgBAQACgwMBAwADDwEHAASGGAECAAWGGAEFAAYeAQcABx4BBgAIHgEBAAkhAQMACh0BAgACAgGF9wEBAAIyAQEA I won mostly because the opponent deployed in an awkward way. He didn't set up the Brigada ML or the rest of the link in a way that could stop my Teutons. After losing my Tik to his Brawler MSV2 MSR (yes, it was a terrible roll), a repair and the sniper was dead. My Teutons then charged in, killed a Bigada hacker, Massacre and without good weapons for close range engagements, while only one was left, he doded into melee, and in my turn cut down the rest of the link. KotHS just mopped up the rest. 10-0, complete wipe, the opponent surendered when he had only a few random support models left. Teutons are crazy powerful, alongside the Tik pretty much the reason to take MO from the dusty shelf. Dodging, DTW, excellent melee, NCO Spitfire and 6-2 move bring a lot to the table. CoC on the Sepulchre is solid security not to go into LoL, as well as a secondary push into the midfield. Game 3 was against Dashat. Maggy, McMurder, Brawler MSV2 link, smoke shooters, remotes. This was a close game, he made some mistakes in attempting a 16" in Maggy with Suppressive fire. Cool idea, but I just went outside of 24 and gunned it down. Ap on that HMG is no joke. Trutons performed admirably, but some awful rolls meant McMurder killed all 3 in melee, with 1 wound on him, after eating 7 ARO shots. KotHS died to the possessed Tik, Valerya is pretty nasty. My mistake on not moving him further back and into ARO protection. 5-0 in this one. All 3 were good games, N4 is fun to play. MO is finally reasonably strong and taking them out doesn't feel like shooting myself in the foot and it's not dreadfully boring to play. The options in listbuilding are a bit constrained and I wish links were more flexible. I should probably take Mendoza and Trinitarian spam lists out for a spin.
Rocked my first game of NewMO last week. Ran the following into armoury. Zw9taWxpdGFyeS1vcmRlcnMGTnVtb2l2gSwCAQoBhdEBAQAChdEBAwADGwEEAASGGAEFAAWGGAEFAAYeAQQABx4BBQAIHgEFAAkmAQIACiYBAQACAQEbAQMA Started by basically picking apart my opponents midfield while pushing tuetons into the armoury. Then let my opponent waste their turn trying to deal with them. Lost only the tuetons over the course of the game and after theyd all dropped it was a case of pushing the core into the room while mopping up stragglers. The list is definitely a compromise based on models currently available, but I'm fairly happy with how it all worked and it really helped solidify in my mind the concept that MO really has the tools to engage in and win Cyberwarfare this edition.
You weren't tempted to put the Machinist into the Core? It seems like an easy win to downgrade one Teuton and upgrade one Crosier.
Unless I wanted to drop both tuetons to the 19 pt variant then the only way to find the 4 pts to upgrade the machinist would be by running an order seargent in the haris, given that i plan on pushing the haris into armouries or my opponents DZ Im not hugely tied to that idea. I can reset out of problems if I need and its often so hard to put the knights in a position to need that so I prefer the redundancy over a engineer role
Has anybody had success with the santiago drop? I keep looking at it and wishing for a para trooper. I get that with an evo that's an 80% chance to land it . But God is it going to feel bad when you roll a 17 and that 60 point investment nets you a 4-4 hi on your board edge
I don't really have room to fit him in any of the lists and as you say, it's a further 15 point investment. Parachutist would have been welcome as well as some other profiles (multi rifle maybe and no hacking device) because the idea itself is very cool, just not 45 points cool.