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Holoecho and Hackable

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Diphoration, Mar 25, 2021.

  1. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    N4 doesn't have the N3 clause where the Hackable status of Holoecho is public information within ZoC.

    Does this mean that Holoecho are effectively un-hackable in N4? What if they holo as something that is Hackable and they're not? What if they holo as something that's Hackable and they are?

    Or can you Declare an action (Order or ARO) that is invalid at Declaration and then get the hack to resolve at resolution through hidden information?

    (Please give source, thanks <3)
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    With N4 you are free to Declare any AROs and then check if they're valid at step 5, so you can Declare Hacking against a Holoecho/Holomask and if it's not hackable it'll just revert to an Idle.
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Due to how skill declaration works in N4, you can declare any kind of hack against any kind of target since non-LOF requirements are checked much later in the order sequence. The Holoecho displays the public information of whatever it's mimicking, however, if you target a non-hackable target it with e.g. a Carbonite your opponent will inform you that your declared skill failed its requirements check at step 6.

    This is probably not the link you're looking for that would explicitly spell out the answer for you, but the answer is in here: https://infinitythewiki.com/Trooper_Activation#Order_Expenditure_Sequence
     
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  4. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    I believe that these are the relevant rules.

    The Hacking Attack is not invalid at declaration because being Hackable is not a requirement for them to be a target of a Hacking Attack. Holoechos are valid targes because of the Holoecho rule. If the attack is successful and the Holoecho has to make a save, it is canceled.

    Edit: Hackable may be a restriction to Targeting with certain programs, see Hackable below.

    Hacking:
    • Only Troopers or Peripherals in Model form may be targeted by Hacking Programs.
    Holoecho:
    • Holoechoes are considered real Troopers in regard to providing AROs, checking LoF, and activating Enemy weapons or pieces of Equipment (Mines, CrazyKoalas, etc.). Each Reactive Trooper must choose only one of the Holoechoes activated by the Order as their target, but they are not obliged to choose the same target.
    Holoecho Cancelation:The Holoprojector bearer is forced to make a Saving Roll.

    Edit:
    Under the Hacking Programs Chart the Target type is listed as:

    Target. The Troop Type that can be targeted by the Hacking Program.

    The Holoecho would count as that troop type presumably because of the first bullet point of Holoecho State:
    • While in Holoecho State, the Trooper is represented by three Holoechoes: the Holoecho 1 Marker, the Holoecho 2 Marker and the actual Model.
    If Hackable is interpreted as a restriction to being a target of certain Hacking Attacks; then I believe the first bullet point of Holoecho covers that too if the Holoecho is representing a unit that is Hackable.
     
    #4 jfunkd, Mar 25, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  5. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Note that in N4 there's nothing to stop you declaring something like Carbonite against a Line Kazak, it's just not going to do anything.
     
  6. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think all of the discussions from N3 about "What the hell does 'hackable' mean?" killed the idea of making that open information. :face_with_head_bandage:

    So, presumably in recognition of the fact that holoprojectors and holoechoes existing in the game mean that it's impossible to know whether the target is valid or not (because fundamentally you can't know whether your target is disguised), the order sequence changed from N3's "You're supposed to make sure you're fulfilling the requirements first" to "You'll find out later whether they're valid or not". (Essentially the only requirement that's enforced on declaration is LoF.)

    But if you're still used to how N3 worked, that's why the Order sequence has that Step 6 (emphasis added):
    6. Resolution: Check that the declared Skills, Special Skills, and pieces of Equipment meet their respective Requirements, measure all distances and Zones of Control, determine MODs, and make Rolls. If any Skill, Special Skill, or piece of Equipment does not meet its Requirements, the Trooper is considered to have declared an Idle. (See FAQs & Errata. LoF Requirements are checked when declaring the Skill.)
     
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  7. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    Welcome to the Guess Hack Era \o/
     
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