Personally I like the Trinitarian Tertiary sniper, the "what do I shoot?" or more probable "damage assessment pose" he has is nice. Knight commander has the role of the backline LT if you want a frontline LT use a knight.
Depends on the playstyle and preferences really, both NCO options are prime candidates for "95% of the time".
Commander is definitely one of the units it's hard to get the initial feel for, at least for me. In any other army he would be too expensive for a primarily backline Lt, but in MO he's actually one of the cheapest options. Also, he looks squishy. For now he's a peg with a shape not fitting any of the usual holes, and requires some thought to find a way to use him to the best of his abilities. And both NCOs are a good choice, especially depending on whether I want to fuel a fireteam, or a solo trooper. Or both. I really like the fact that it's much easier to fit things into MO lists now.
That’s why I think he needs more fireteam options. When playing against MO, your opponent know he’s ether going to be a solo model or in a Crosier core. If you bring a any other Core he’s relegated to hiding as a solo model, but because of the cost of a non-Crosier core you aren’t likely to have many options to hide himself
He is still weird. He is powerfull with current Tactical Window and fact you can somewhat fit 2 NCO (one in each combat group) this giving you 2 "movable" orders. So Lt2 profile is usefull in such scenario BUT only in that scenario. Which is shame for other profile (Lt1) as it is really feeling the paint of being bloated. And creating a unit only to work with 2 other units is not the greatest of designs. (we again go back to weird MO list building)
Well, MO command structure was always a bit different than that of the other armies. Our cheapest Lt is a 19 pts HI warband, our CoC is more expensive than every Lt we can field, so the way we think about it needs to be different as well. Good thing that it's easier to create a list with two combat groups. One of the things I'm not particularly sold on is the separation of Croziers and Sergeants. It feels like it was done more to fit the existing model lineup than to balance what can and what can't be linked in Teuton/Hospitaller fireteam, and regardless, it looks like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting with the unit.
Taking the expensive CoC also means that you are likely not able to take one of the two NCO models and one of the few non-TAG HMGs available. Sure, Sepulchre Knights are AVA 2 but they are prohibitively expensive.
The only reason everyone isn't taking 4 Teutons in every list is the Ava, they are the biggest buff to MO in this update. But, I'm not a fan of the KC at all. 28 points for a model that does barely anything better than an Acontacimento Regular Lt, at that cost, without flexible link options and a lot of bloat is not appealing to me. Even for a backline lt, I'd take the Teuton over him. In my book, he's even more survivable, while being actually useful on the table. One extra order only most probably single model in your list capable of using it is not good. MO still doesn't have a proper cheap backline LT, but a Teuton you are taking anyway mixed with a KotHS CoC, that's also a fantastic midfield platform, bring incredible hacking defense, defensive melee capability, mine clearing, AP to deal with tags and HI is likewise something I want in any case. KC feels like a 20/24 point worth unit, not 24/28. Also, MO, for me isn't hitting anywhere near 15 orders, but having 11/12 in one group does feel like a very nice thing. Testing out my theories this Saturday in a tournament.
I completely agree with the Holy sepulchure knight. He is a very useful platform that helps us deal with a great range of threats. I also agree with the knight commander he feels a bit expensive but I've found using him to fill a slot in a defensive core to be the best place for him as he's protected and disguised among other crosiers. I do disagree with the 15 order count with military orders because we can very easily make a list with 15 regular orders that leverages our solo pieces like dart, KoTHS and TOFOOS to get the job done.
For a 15 order type list I'd lean into more standard PanO type play without taking more than 0-2 actual knights, at which point it's a matter of preferring to simply play Acontacimento - defensive link, Tik, remotes and infiltrators is a viable list, but isn't playing to the most interesting parts of the sectorial.
Expensive, yes. Prohibitively... debatable. We can fit two, and still have space for proper Teuton fireteam with some wildcards, and some support to make a decent LI list. Hell, we can make a passable 15-order list: ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (NCO) AP Heavy Machine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 56) KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) MULTI Marksman Rifle(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 53) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 15) CROSIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) CROSIER Combi Rifle, Blitzen, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) CROSIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) CROSIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) MULEBOT (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14) PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) WARCOR (Sixth Sense) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) GROUP 2 5 TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 31) TEUTONIC KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Lieutenant) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 19) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Gotta say looks interesting. Still not quite sure what to do with hackers/repeaters on the rooftops, but at least in my version you got an EVO for that. I don't think that ML are worth the money in a non-core fireteam, I think you'd rather have panzerfaust that has better rangebands. Other thing I don't really like is traumadoc, as paramedics in harris/core are way better in this edition (especially since teutons don't have cube). Also moved harris into G1, had a game with harris in second group, and would love to have more orders for them (I had KC with +1LT order even) ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (NCO) AP Heavy Machine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 56) KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) MULTI Marksman Rifle(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 53) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 15) CROSIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) CROSIER Combi Rifle, Blitzen, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) CROSIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) CROSIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 31) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Specialist Operative) Submachine Gun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 21) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Lieutenant) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 19) GROUP 2 4 1 PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) MULEBOT (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15) PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14) WARCOR (Sixth Sense) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Big reason for bringing the Doc is Palbot access, dragging a LI Core up to the midline to resurrect a key unit (and you can bet that list's in trouble if the enemy gets lucky and downs a KoTHS without losses) is tedious and dangerous. You're one well-placed Hidden Deployment shotgun from being down 5 orders, and probably the game since you're unlikely to have developed the positions of any scoring Specialists yet.
the KotHS is a good addition to vanilla, he work well with joan (ofc I'm talking about the CoC) he's immunish to hacking with a EVO and can have work done mid clearing the CK/mines killing the mid table nuisances and pushing buttons MO is a no go for me but just for the KotHS I'm glad the sectorial exist
Edit: wow, I did not know profiles were excluded from Vanilla, my condolences to Pan-O Off the top of my head, Knight Commander, Montesa, Teutona, Santiago and Mendoza all bring something unique to Vanilla that no other sectorial does. Certain ITS missions will do better with these troops.
