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Onyx needs rework! What should it be?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Daireann, Mar 13, 2021.

  1. BrianJ

    BrianJ Well-Known Member

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    Good point. I agree that removing the current profiles might not be the best move. Adding new profiles and maybe splitting the msv2 to not be on all profiles would be a compromise. Like you said, a couple of the current troops do find use in vanilla which is important. If any of the things I proposed came packaged as a new trooper I’d be all for it, they just seem like “tracker” type things.


    Totally agree. Especially in a faction without warbands and few intuitive/spec fire options.
     
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  2. Melkhior

    Melkhior Doing filthy things for EI

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    I would love another sensor option, but CB is giving it only to very specific units and loadouts. It is given to combi rifle (or to equivalent weapon) loadouts only. So Maakrep with sencor would be probably only on combi. Question is what would be role of SWC weapon Maakrep if we will take MSV2 from them in exchange to combi rifle + sensor loadout. One solution would be to have SWC weapons with MSV2 and combi rifle + sensor without MSV2.

    Wild idea:
    I really like units with peripheral (synchronised) rule and CA already have some of them. So maybe unit similar to sirius team would be interesting addition to Onyx?

    forward deployment + 8, minelayer, mimetism
    shock mines, bording shotgun/smg/marksmen rifle (or any other weapon)
    bot sensor flamer/ADHL/conteder

    It would be unit that combine Streloks with Antipode and Sirius team in something unique for us. It could have loadouts with and without bot and so. AVA 1 in vanilla AVA 2 - 3 in Onyx.
     
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  3. Daireann

    Daireann Well-Known Member

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    Now it sounds good. Msv2 maakrep should stay, but there could be another version of course. Without msv2 and with sensor. It fits well with unit’s background.

    Something with peripheral also sounds grate! But I don’t know, that could it be. Another unidron-support? I like taigha creatures, but they are shasvastii option. But I really like units with friends)
     
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  4. D_acolyte

    D_acolyte Well-Known Member

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    I would remove morats and shasvastii from it and expand sygma and umbra unit rosters. Make it sort of like sith master and aprentence on a ractial level, where the sygma are learning from the umbra. I feel that removing the 5 morat/shasvastii units and replacing them with something new will help give it a better identity and can improve play. What to replace them with is a matter of debate, you need a skirmisher and a second core option but past that you have 3 more slots to help shape it. An umbra or sygma HI would also be good to add in, I feel this is more a sygma model.
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Nah. I like my Rodoks and Noctifers.

    The thread is about how to fix OCF mechanically, not "I don't like OCF's theme so I want to destroy it."

    It's also worth noting that it's not the Sygmaa that are learning from the Umbra, it's the Urkherit (Nexus Agents).
     
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    What do you mean by this?
     
  7. Melkhior

    Melkhior Doing filthy things for EI

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    I am also against it. I really like Onyx thematically. Many Onyx players already bought Morat and Shasvastii units that are in the army and taking them away would create shitstorm. Also I am one of a few players who would like to see Sygmaa sectorial. It is IMHO logical that Sygmaa would have their own army, which they use against Tohaa terorrists from Tohaa planets in the Ur hegemony.
     
  8. D_acolyte

    D_acolyte Well-Known Member

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    The topic is how to make it feel better, that is not a mechanical only issue. The objective is nebulas and from reading some comments it looks like unit selection is a valid conversation. Onyx for the most part is a refinement of CA, it has some strong options from the various races that are supported by advance technology. It takes some very choice units from the other races, such as Rodoks and Noctifers and puts them in a force together, this causes it to feel simular to how vanilla is played just lack some of the more outlandish units such as speculo killer. I am not even going to touch on some of these units fluff wise and where that brakes down.

    You want pure mechanics:
    As for mechanically Dakini vs Unidron, the grass is always greener on the other side: one possibly has better rules vs the other having a better set of weapons/equipment. The tin bot goes a long way when you want to be agresive.
    The 2 tags (Overdrone and Xenodrone) do there intended roles well of fire support and aggressive mid fielders
    Maakrep tracker is one of several case in the game where the model did not get options that other got such as the kamua sniper but they can still serve the role of camo hunting well
    Fractaa and Grief operators are both good, you may want them cheaper but they work
    Umbra have a small degree of point hike from the number of rules they had, I would rather they loose some and gained a better bs
    The Nexus Agents is not high on my list but they are passable, if it take them it is normally a cheap one or the LT
    The hacking trio, Bit, Kerr-Nau and Nourkias are all killer hackers with different extra. Onyx can make an ok repeater network and all 3 bring something to the table, I like Kerr-Nau but I love white noise.
    None of these I feel are game braking for these models

    Rem faction links points (compared to OS)
    Do you need an evo hackers, no it adds some power to the link team and if you want to put one into the list that is fine, the only issue is reapplying the buff when models are taken out so you would need a repeater in the link.
    Remdriver: I find if you are taking both an apsara and an evo hacker to modify one rem you tend to be gilding the lily, sure you will hit on 19 in your ideal range band but you are also dedicating the core cost, 22 for the apsara, and 15 for the evo hacking (CA evo is 18 because it has a gun) to it and almost half your max bodies to this 1 model. It is really focusing your point and bodies.
    Finally where OS does questionably better is being able to put an engineer in but you have dodged so would you want to not activate dodged to be able to be repaired, this is a situational thing and really up the cost of a link.

    I was giving an example because I could see expanding the sygmaa, I do not see expanding the urkherit but if they did then I would be fine with that.

    To me the main issue is the feel not the mechanics.
     
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Well, I'm guessing you don't play OCF then.

    OCF doesn't feel like vanilla because it doesn't have access to Aspects, including the Avatar, and Shrouded, which are the choice rambo pieces and skirmishers respectively.

    Mechanically, OCF hacking is severely lacking to the point where it cannot compete with Nomad hacking, whereas it could in N3.
     
  10. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I don’t love OCF’s theme, but I do agree with this statement. At this point I am waiting for a new sectorial, not wanting to gut and re-theme an existing one.

    To pick a parallel example, I’ve seen some Ariadna players complaining that Kosmoflot doesn’t have a coherent theme because it features a handful of new units and then a bunch of ones that already had homes in the previous sectorials. It may not lead to bad gameplay, but it doesn’t have quite as cohesive of a visual and narrative effect.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Visually, I think it can have quite a cohesive visual effect if they're painted in-scheme; I know I've done that with my OCF, going for an edgy red-and-black for my Onyx (including the Shas) whereas my Shas Shas are yellow and purple like their unit badges.
     
  12. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Sure, no doubt that it’s possible to get a unifying color scheme. But Combined has some of the largest levels of in-faction visual variation due to each sub-group (Morat, Shasvastii, Ur) having its own weapon designs, armor styles, etc. No other faction comes close.
     
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  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I dunno, everyone except Morats has digitigrade legs now.
     
  14. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Hah, fair enough. And if you made a digitigrade Morat, it would look like a Chaksa - which are also sculpted by Fausto.

    But the fact remains that all the Morats have one set of weapon designs, all the Shasvastii have another, and the Umbra / Nexus / Aspects / Batroids / REMs have a third. (Ignoring sculpts old enough that they don’t have modern weapon designs)

    That latter group is what I consider to be the Ur Rationalist subfaction, and I would absolutely love to have a sectorial that was focused solely on those sorts of units.
     
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  15. Daireann

    Daireann Well-Known Member

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    No removements, please! ;)
    Removing something is unfair. Making people to loose options isn’t good.
    They bought miniatures. They shouldn’t loose them.
    .
     
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  16. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I really like the idea of a mixed loadout 'camo hunter' maakrep, and in the style of the current times, giving it straight up wildcard and upgrading it from "that crappy MSV guy we get" to "major faction draw".

    A combi or boarding shotgun w/ sensor for like 23 points, wildcarding around the place would be solid. And fuck it, let the HMG wildcard too.

    Also, good god, is MSV2 five points? I'd make the argument that every single loadout save the SWC gunners is 4 points overcosted then. No wonder nobody takes these types of units.

    I disagree with this so hard. Vanilla MSV2 guys with either inefficient rifles or long distance HMGs, have never been good at 'camo hunting'. They cost more than what they counter and do a bad job of it.
     
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  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I'd really rather the Maakrep didn't get plugged into fireteams. Hell, you can't even discover + shoot with them while they're in it. A piece that could operate solo would be much more valuable.
     
  18. Mogra

    Mogra Well-Known Member

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    Then a FTO version if the maakrep could do the trick
     
  19. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    You don't NEED to put it on a link if you can link
     
  20. D_acolyte

    D_acolyte Well-Known Member

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    Or may be I do not find the aspects enough for me to play vanilla, I find that they are to expensive for me as it feels like putting all my eggs in one basket.
    How are you trying to compete with them? They are known for Hacking and have the best capability in the game to set up hacking networks and have point for point the best dedicated hackers in the game but Onyx is not a slouch compared to others faction or sectorial. There are multiple wip 14 hackers of various types in onyx including some with hidden deployment and some good utility in the killer hackers as well as hackers that can go around with a tin bot. Kerr-Nau with a tin bot in his team effectively out compete most hackers in the game, and he even has a pitcher to help set up a network.
     
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