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Onyx needs rework! What should it be?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Daireann, Mar 13, 2021.

  1. Morray

    Morray Well-Known Member

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    Ahh bud don't cry into your cornflakes it's just a game.

    Ohh matey, don't know what to say if you can't see the power of Onyx, maybe they just aint the faction for ya.

    To answer your points, you asked for unique hacking? WIP12 flash 60% time works every time :) . You asked what Unidron with Plas can do in turn 1/2, I told you? You give it marksmanship and wipe the floor with any one sticking their neck out...It's almost like you just want to complain at this point, again. Maybe this faction isn't for you? Tbh I use the assault pistols on Ko-Dali and the increased physical can help on the drop, she can D-charge in CC as well if needed, but if you don't like her yea use the Frac.

    Trust me when N4 was released I was as disappointed as every one else that we didn't get some new crazy uber buff, to the point I built and painted 400 points of Corregidor https://twitter.com/Morrayz But having played more games with N4 Onyx than you (By the looks) I can tell you they're not just fine, they're good. As for every one saying our Umbras are rubbish, it sounds like you need more practise.hh

    Ahhh how to win friends and influence people by J.R.Morray
     
  2. Morray

    Morray Well-Known Member

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    Haha, well that was just bloody unlucky fella! :D lmao...
     
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  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The fact that you don't even understand the FtF mechanic means that you should probably not contribute to this discussion.
     
  4. bloodw4ke

    bloodw4ke Well-Known Member

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    Also... since when is flash pulse hacking..?

    I'm sure you've got the imperial guardsmen and tyranids quaking in their boots(?), too.
     
  5. Melkhior

    Melkhior Doing filthy things for EI

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    Yes, samaritans are expensive, but also very effective if they are used well. IMHO I don't consider Samaritan as a tax for Xeodron haris, but as a potential delivery system for Samaritan. Against Nomads I would consider probably different approuch and I wouldn't use Xeo haris or I wouldn't use Samaritan hacker. Staldrons are often enought to accomplish objective if I need it.

    It is not about power level. IMHO concept of wildcards is not very healthy for the game. It wouldn't be so bad if it is given to some units where it has a meaning like Raktorak in MAF and so. IMHO units like Vostok or Rudra also shouldn't be Wildcards (there are other problematic units).
    Fireteams shouldn't be about taking 4 cheap models to buff already strong unit to be even better.
     
    #65 Melkhior, Mar 17, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
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  6. Morray

    Morray Well-Known Member

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    I link to my Twitter, that shows games I've had and my painted minis, but I'm the fake...Lmao, ahh the internet.

    You couldn't see by reading through my post that I was answering your questions as I went? Jesus, no wonder you struggle!

    1. You asked for unique hacking, I showed you previously, catch up guy.
    2. The Flash pulse in Aro works 60% of the time, it was kinda a joke to lighten the mood, woof you boys are wound tight!

    Listen, you are the one's struggling, don't know what to tell you. I do bloody well with Onyx because they're a strong sectorial, ask any one with a healthy knowledge of the game on them, you'll get the same response. Sorry you're struggling, takes practise to get good with anything and if your frustrated with them, use some one else. This works really well playing against the faction you're losing to. I did it with Tohaa and learned their weakness' ...Ish.

    Any way, sorry if you're offended, just trying to help :)

    Peace. x
     
  7. bloodw4ke

    bloodw4ke Well-Known Member

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    Interesting you feel the need to justify your opinions with a made-up consensus. Red flag right there.

    Anyway, the fact that this thread has generated this level of discussion is evidence you're incorrect about the "obvious" power level.

    VaulSC had a pretty neat community poll that ranked Onyx about middle of the pack. That might be right, but it isn't to say the sectorial couldn't use a couple tweaks.

    Screenshot_20201218-121433.png
     
    #67 bloodw4ke, Mar 17, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
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  8. BrianJ

    BrianJ Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, thanks for sharing that!

    I don’t think OCF is “shit” or anything, I had a plenty successful outing my last game with them, but my concern often returns to “but why am I not playing vanilla?” and/or “are all my lists starting to look the same”.

    If you can’t take a 5-man unidron link would you still have reason to play OCF? If you do have a core unidron link do your lists all look/play fairly similarly?

    So far the answers for me are “unsure” and “mostly”, and maybe this is ok, but curious to hear what the rest of you have experienced.
     
  9. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I'm of the opinion that Infinity has a much lower gap between its top and bottom tier armies than, say 40K.
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That's definitely true.
     
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  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You're obviously not trying to help, you're just trying to be obnoxiously condescending. Please go bother people who are incompetent enough at Infinity to fall for your BS.
     
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  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think a lot of this poll is from people still thinking in an N3 mindset. This is gonna change once the rubber hits the road and people start playing in-person games again. In particular, I think USARF is not that bad.
     
  13. bloodw4ke

    bloodw4ke Well-Known Member

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    Likely so. The poll was pretty early in N4 and COVID no doubt slowed folks' gaining experience with the new edition. As with N3, I've played Onyx almost exclusively, and my own estimations of it have slid down.

    Granted, I play against CJC a lot and there's some dumb $hit in there. I'm seriously thinking I need to switch to OSS for those games to be a bit more balanced. Currently I win about 35-40% of the time, but it feels like I need a good strategy AND good dice. Without both I'm being outhacked, outgunned, and out-engineered. I don't know how many times I've shot down that F'ing Vostok just for a linked (shock immune, NWI) Evader to fix it and have it kill my whatever the next turn. Getting into repeater range of it is a deathtrap for whatever poor hacker I have on the table.
     
    #73 bloodw4ke, Mar 18, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
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  14. BrianJ

    BrianJ Well-Known Member

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    Yeah ouch... not a ton of great options to deal with that efficiently.

    Any experience running the suryat haris with HRL yet? I’ve only gotten in on the table once so far but was pretty pleased (more for its defense than offense actually).
     
  15. Daireann

    Daireann Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I have no thoughts anymore about what to do with Onyx.

    I only hope, it would not be discontinued. It would get some tricks and small changes to make forgotten units useful. At lest that.

    (Earlier I wrote more that that here... that was too much water.)
     
    #75 Daireann, Mar 18, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  16. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I am sure the discussion can be done in a better way, a reminder one's opinion should not be considered less valid than others if others wants their opinion to be considered valid.
     
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  17. joedj

    joedj Member

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    Adding specific model profiles for a particular sectorial army, and that sectorial alone, seems like a great way to manage existing models and provide options for playability within that sectorial. OCF could be aided in that way without affecting Vanilla or other sectorials. Maakrep Haris in OCF alone for example. I'd suggest the back and forth within this thread indicates certainly a mixed review of OCF playability and/or satisfaction.

    On a side note, MayaNet profile changes of that type do not sell models in quantity to a longtime player base though, and alas miniature companies do not 'earn' on small changes in Intellectual Property. If they could sell IP changes to existing models ("Purchase this profile to your add to your personal N5 MayaNet 'deck' for use in OCF") would that new business income sustain their company/this game? (pay to play-win already occurs, just with physical models currently, proxying aside.) Be acceptable to players? And motivate additional IP changes as opposed to SKU bloat? Rhetorical questions NOT on topic, please do not respond :sweat_smile:
     
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  18. BrianJ

    BrianJ Well-Known Member

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    Maakrep haris is fairly low on my list as far as changes to OCF goes. I think that troop needs a true rework to find significant use in OCF. Adding the wildcard ability seems like a non-creative fix to me but it would seem to make the faction “better”. My feeling is a core linked msv2 sniper/hmg would just add “panO-like” solutions to OCFs shallow toolbox.

    Where maakreps could really help the faction is by being an option for the midfield. If we don’t have the tools to set up midfield tar pits of mines, jammers, camo shotguns etc then having a great tool to counter that type of play or provide our own type of layered defense would be excellent. Some options of forward deployment, sensor, other specialist types (FO, engineer, CoC?), pheroware to target enemies, E/M mines, ADHL weaponry would all feel “tracker-y” and provide new stuff to work with what we are already decent at: blasting out from our DZ with plasma fireballs and bullets.
     
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  19. Melkhior

    Melkhior Doing filthy things for EI

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    I agree that wildcard option to Maakrep isn't great solution. I am not sure if complete rework of Maakrep is needed. I personally think that Onyx should have MSV option outside of Ko Dali, Greif and HRL Suryat. IMHO there are 2 possible approaches to Maakrep without making him totally different unit. First one is solo unit like is now and for this role I think CB should change Maakrep to be similar to Epsilon unit from O-12 (so marksmen rifle, hmg, sniper loadouts and some slight changes to stats - this needs to be carefull to not change vanilla CA inner balance).
    Second one is fireteam unit. IMHO CB can make them interesting via adding new fireteam core unit that can make fireteam with Maakrep. This new potential unit can also give us some options like engineer and another FO option.

    While I agree that some of these options would be great addition to Onyx I don't think we should change Maakrep to patch up unit for everything we don't have, but we want. Every big unit rework needs to consider how it will impact vanilla. Imho I would rather have new unit with forward deployment specially designed for Onyx. Another new unit that can form fireteam core and bring us engineer option and so.

    I know there are some players that already use existing Maakrep options. I think somebody wrote that he likes to use Maakrep hacker, because of the combo with granades (I don't remember who it was. It happened some time ago).

    So maybe Maakrep should stay for these players and CB should give us some of these options via different units. IMHO new units could bring more new posibillities to how to play Onyx than rework of Maakrep to patch up unit.
     
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  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Honestly if the Maakrep lost MSV2 and gained Sensor I might run it more. I value Sensor very highly in N4.
     
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