Ye Mao are essentially bagh mari with superjump so a full wildcard would instantly make them playable and provide a nice middle option for Zhanshi team between basic Zhanshi and Shang-ji (either as aro piece or a pointman) Barring that, 6-2 move because superjump on 4 is way too limited (basically you can use it only as full move jump up to a rooftop or jumping between very narrow gaps)
Ye Mao are an archetype that you find in other sectorials, too, be it Super-Jump Mimetic stuff like Rodoks or mimetic viral stuff like Lasiqs, non-super jump "Ye Mao" in Bagh-Mari, or just plain mimetic stuff like KTS. They're all in the somewhat awkward spot of 20-30, have 1 wound, no Marker state, and several of them have kind of old designs that used to be great... On paper these units work, but in practice several of them don't offer anything to their faction or sectorial. Specific solutions for specific units, in other words. Ye Mao's biggest problem is that they're competing for the Haris spot with heavy infantry that shoot similarly well but at higher wound attribute. They also have basically no wildcard units that can slot into them with Super-Jump, and Super-Jump is really crummy in N4. Adding to this is that Guilang are a thing in the same price class and at very high AVA. The primary benefit that Ye Mao bring are competent Engineers, competent Hackers, and a gun for every occasion. Suggestion for Ye Mao: Sixth Sense and either Forward Deployment +8" or Infiltration (probably the former). Increase points by approximately 2. Drop or keep Haris (probably the former) Reason: As someone brought up in the Yu Jing forums, it's strange that White Banner have so few "skirmish" style units that's making use of tech and skills that would allow them to punch up at a more tech savvy opponent. By giving them a skirmish element for positional advantage and Sixth Sense to grossly complement their MSV1, they can now without inflating their price too much punch up at Svalarheiman forces through smoke and snow. Plus, it's not as boring as the universal solution of making something Wildcard ;)
Ye Mao need fixing? fucking lol Msv1, mimetism, super jump AP Spitfire for 32pts? What do you want, for it to tickle your balls too?
Be an Engineer with a Tinbot, NWI and Shock Immune for 2 more points. In all seriousness though, isn’t it mostly a structural issue with Superjump? Superjump units almost universally underperform right now. Fix super jump and they’re in a lot better place.
30 points markerless 1 wound units are generally not very playable in Infinity especially since HIs got point drops with N4
basically here are two choices for attacking/button pressing Haris teams in WB for +16 points (20% investment) you get two more wounds total +1 order +1 BS on two units 6-2 move bigger range and shock on main gun boarding shotgun for close range tinbot for KHD to contest hacking ftfs You lose the ability to shoot through smoke and are a bit worse in shootouts vs non-msv and mimetic units But I believe that having more wounds is more valuable when most of the enemy roster may have templates thanks to current shotguns Why would you pick Ye Mao team and lose your will to live when they dont pass the first template they meet? And of course there needs to be noted that Ye Mao cant form core teams at all so you cant make the most of the MSV missile launcher
Everything's easier when looking from outside. In my perspective Morat Vanguard was totally acceptable, but we guessed it's up to their players. Ye Mao's similar to pre-update bolts since 4-4 SJs are pretty much garbage lineup nowadays, and just slapping a mimetism to something does not make it utterly playable. It's up to you to judge it as 'another YJ granting', but in WB they're pretty much out of place since they have to compete against Shang Ji Haris team. Their paper stats seem pretty neat, and we tried to leverage it into something useful - but WB's core is mostly a Zhanshi link with Shang Ji babysitter, which leaves few choices for another attacking piece. And we all know how fragile haris is, especially when you have to leverage hefty points into it. 3 Guys with fur coats and AP spitfire could be nasty, but massive discounts on 2Ws and nerf to super jump made Ye Maos out of place; similar problem lies with Jing Qo, who is outrageously useless, but it's the other talk.
It's lovely how they fixed Seraph, then introduced Montesa Tik, and then they broke Seraph again ;P CB seems to really hate that winged TAG....
────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 2 SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49) SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) ZHANSHI (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) YĚ MĀO AP Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32) YĚ MĀO (Engineer, Deactivator) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt, Panzerfaust, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31) YĚ MĀO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) GROUP 2 3 2 2 HÙNDÙN (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27) GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5) PANGGULING (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army Looks fine to me, pretty good, playable list.
Seems like the main issue is cost, you're paying Nisse/Epsilon prices without getting Nisse/Epsilon effectiveness. MSV+Mimetism+BS12 is a solid baseline and will outshoot most things that don't also have both Visor and vis mods. AP ammo everywhere makes them good can-openers in a HI/TAG meta. 6-2 Move at the current price would definitely make them more attractive as they could then get on to of buildings without having to double-jump, and a cheaper filler profile with SMG or LSG would also help a lot.
Yeah. It's a good list. Except for the fact that you've advertised your LT worse than Nomads, you're very vulnerable to minelayers, you have barely any mid-field presence and only one decent ARO piece (primarily because you have no way to recover the Shang-Ji should they be put UNC and that you've managed to avoid the strongest addition to YJ that WB brought - Long Ya) Dunno. Aside from Ye Mao being good at classifieds because Yu Jing have more line troops than all other factions combined, there's a lot to be gained from rebuilding the list with a lot fewer of them...
I give up. Why do you guys even play Infinity anyway, all you ever do is complain about it I could write a hundred thousand words about trying to make these units work and you'd just be like "nuh-uh"
that would be massively improved by dropping ye maos and turning the core team into 4 HI + tiang gou AND getting two long ya bots or spending their 92 points on skirmishers that wont be a prime target for a chain rifle you just dont run a 90 points haris of single wound models in 2021
Sure. But that's not a problem with Ye Mao. It's a structural problem with N4 that was obvious a mile off when CB said they were making HI cheaper and didn't remove Shock from the game.
I'm looking at the 20 or so words you've written so far and it's pretty much a few repeats of "nuh-uh they work" as if it's a convincing argument. Not feeling optimistic I'll have anything to learn from the remaining 99980 words when you're refusing to play ball at all... I'm not trying to make you play ball, btw, so don't feel like you have to participate if you don't want to I agree it's systemic to about half of the premium one-wounders, but I don't think the heavy infantry rework is part of it. I also don't think Shock is part of it, either. I think it's more about how costs stack up. There's usually quite the leap when going from really basic infantry at around 11 points, where after adding 1 ARM, 1 BS, and maybe 1 WIP you've a unit that's jumped to double the cost. They've started addressing it; e.g. Zhanying aren't paying a Chaiyi's worth for Sixth Sense or whatever brought their costs down to below that of a Wu Ming, and arguably Bolts even outside the Multi Sniper are looking quite spiffy. But looping back to topic; I'm also kind of of the opinion that when it comes to Ye Mao it's not so much a cost problem as a delivery problem. I always felt like they can't quite make it to the mid-field because the game is set up to hate mimetic units with short-to-medium low burst weapons that has to get there without Marker state.
Because I like it. And I've got to fill the time between games with something anyway. Talking about how to have even more fun with it seems as good as any other pursuit.
The only thing bugging me on ye maos is the missile launcher, which doesn't really make sense on a unit who wants to get in there to use the spitfire. Otherwise it's just another case of a really decent unit stuck in a sectorial with a lof of wonderful ones. Not much to say really.
When I see the Ye Mao I think Kaplans, who are also BS 12 mimetism link type troopers. The problem with those is that you are paying a premium for every link member. Nobody gives a shit if your paramedic has mimetism or msv1, but you still have to pay for it. Strip MSV1 from the unit, reapply to the Spitfire, Missile. If that doesn't reduce the cost enough, do the same with mimetism. I'd also look at that BTS - thats for profiles who care about hacking, which these guys don't. A less interesting alternative is the mandatory wildcard/allow link with zanshi blah blah option. Either way, combine with fixing superjump and you'd have a solid profile IMO. You say that like its a new thing - this type of model has always been a shitter since at least 2nd edition. I miss the days of chain rifles imposing a -6 to dodge, and a 5pt model reaping like 120 points of kills with one shot...
