Does this stack with other surprisers e.g. coordinated orders? it reads like it does. I feel like I remember this being applied only to face to face rolls in N3.
yeah it got better as now it doesn't require a FTF, it's just imposing a neg.mod on enemy. and also there's nothing prohibiting it from being used by a model who's part of the coordinated order.
That’s not what Stampysaur is asking, but whether you stack multiple MODs for Surprise Attack if you have multiple people using it against the same target.
There’s not a clear general rule, but I’m going to assume that the same named modifier can’t be applied multiple times. Pick the one worst surprise bonus and apply it to all rolls that order. Compare this to things like stat modifiers, firewalls, or low visibility zones, which do tell you how to resolve multiple occurrences.
Good point, I did not think about those. I will probably just play without stacking unless I hear otherwise. But on the otherhand firewall specifically calls out that it does not stack with other firewalls. I would expect a blanket rule saying modifiers do not stack if they intended it to be that way. looks like this could also apply to an enemy hacker walking into a repeater and me using multiple zero pain ARO's.
The precedent for that would be that each Zero Pain modifier applies only to its own FtF roll. I.e. if you split Trinity between multiple targets that a) Reset, b) Zero Pain, and c) Suppressive Fire, the rolls against ZP and SF will be at WIP -3 and the roll against Reset will be at straight WIP.
Where does it mention that in the rules? Zero Pain just says it applies a -3 mod to the targets comms attacks. Nothing to do with face to face. i know thats how it worked in N3 but again this looks like it may have changed in N4 and while it may be unintentional i am not seeing any supporting evidence that these do not stack, Other then visibility zones and firewalls.
Surprise Attack is worded very differently. This Attack imposes an additional negative MOD, as shown in round brackets in the Unit Profile [Surprise Attack (-3), Surprise Attack (-6)...]. This MOD only applies to targets of the Attack, and applies to any Skill Roll that those targets perform in ARO. Compare hacking general rules: Opponent’s MOD. A MOD that is applied to an enemy Trooper’s Attribute when performing a Face to Face Roll. And suppressive fire for good measure: Enemy Troopers within Suppressive Fire Range (0-24 inches) apply a -3 MOD to their Attribute in all Face to Face Rolls against a Trooper in Suppressive Fire State.
Fair enough, i missed that in hacking. still don’t see anywhere that says multple surprises don’t stack though. I don’t think it needs to be face to face to apply the mod either.
Surprise definitely applies even if the roll is not FtF. I agree that it does not explicitly address how to stack, which is why I was pointing to things like firewalls and low viz as precedent. Those both have stacking rules, and say to use the single worst mod, rather than applying multiple copies of the same named penalty. A clarification would be good whenever the first FAQ comes out, but for now this is what I would recommend as the most consistent with other mechanics option.
That is definitely how i will play as well. I posed the question to make sure i wasn’t missing something somewhere else.
So, do the mods stack or not? according to rules and errata they stack, because nowhere mentioned surprise shot specifically. I mean if camo is in the back arc moving w/o stealth -> opp applies Dodge -3, and then camo doing surprise shot -> additon -3, so -6 in total?
I don't think I got a firm answer on it. your example is correct though, because the mods are from different things. My question was regarding using a coordinated order to surprise shot with multiple troops. would the target then take -3 from the first, -3 more from the second....and so on to a max of -12. This only came up because surprise shot dies not need to be face to face in order to apply the -3.
