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Praise to the Lord! - The Orders Are Coming

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by AdmiralJCJF, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    In my mind, the restrictions on PanO should have been lifted the moment the Kriza Borac and Spetsnaz were introduced to the game. We saw Varuna enjoy some creative freedom for a bit, before immediately being nerfed of all their signature tools one edition later. And that creative inspiration has never happened for Vanilla.

    As for Crocs and Tertiaries:
    If my Vanilla PanO opponent paid nearly a 3rd of their points and SWC just to put down three antipersonnel mines, I'd thank them for not buying a Cutter instead. Paying that many points to put down 3 mines is pretty awful in N4.

    Multiple TO units have innate balance, because they're extremely expensive and their order isn't generated until they're deployed. They're even weaker in N4 since small arms don't have the usefulness they did in N3, where the meta was predominantly 1-Wound models.
     
  2. Pinky

    Pinky Well-Known Member

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    Besides, I reckon the most popular Tertiary would be the SMG one for objectives. Cheap and effective, doing what you want him to do. And there's no similar choice for the points available, at least not a good one (Nokken and Locust are, we can probably agree, not exactly good).
     
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  3. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
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    I dont necessarily disagree with the idea that PanO has some extremely good shooting. The Karhu is possibly one of the most powerful glass cannons in the game able to wipe tags off the table with startling efficiency. The balance of this sort of piece is debatable itself. Thats said we also have limited advantage for a lot of midrange and budget gunfighters as the high 20s to 30s range is often replicated in other armies sometimes to better extents than PanO does. Prime example being the epsilon vs the nisse and the grenzer sniper vs the bolt sniper. Looking at higher end options of infantry and again, there are a few nice pieces, but they too have replication or are surpassed in their own ways. The Omega, hac tao, hsien, Asawira, Janissaries and kriza all have significant comparison and advantages over the PanO lineup. PanO has a glut of bare mod HI. Now this may change soon, but right now PanO has a solid unit in the orc due to the frequent use of Orc+fusilier as a design for PanO sectorials but largely lacks for solid edge in gunfighter at this level. The Swiss guard and Aquila are constantly brought up, but they're in one sectorial and that sectorial has significant build restrictions. So why is it every sectorial gets hit in response to the existence of these two in one? TAG wise, PanO is largely fine. Cutter still cuts and Tikbalang tiks. There are weird inconsistencies showing up there with other factions now though. The Guija is a MBT that can pop around and melee better than the PanO "light" with a significantly better gun. Odd, but okay. The LT tags of CA and Aleph are absolutely loaded on Wip and c&c where as PanO can boast a single wip 13 LT tag and somehow shoots worse than them. Right. The Its apparent that the shooting edge over other factions is becoming vanishing thin.

    The fact is that every restriction placed against PanO has a "reason" and there are consistent examples where this is absolutely fine. There also seems to be a great discrepancy with which faction identity is enforced. Haqq not only has fantastic specialists but has become a serious shooting force overnight. Nomads are absolutely ridiculous hacking and are resilient and can shoot with the best of them. They have access to just about everything in the game with little regard to restraint. The new Vostok immediately blew a lot of shooting out of the water and gave nomads redundant access to msv counters AND the received the marksman grenzer buff giving them access to a piece that is on par if not better than the dreaded kamau sniper. Jing has weak sectorials due to a variety of individual reasons, but their vanilla is absolutely one of the most well rounded with the ability to compete in almost every aspect of the game extremely competently. CA has the restriction of no cheap troops... unless you count all those rems and who wants to take line troops anyway especially with the order cap. Aleph has similar restrictions as CA, but also alleviates it with rems, beacons and post humans. Ariadna may be the only other faction that currently has a clear design limit without mitigating factors. They have tech access issues and are compensated with unique ammo and large amounts of skills. This has actually been well restrained. And they're kinda not so good right now. The same could be said in part for PanO. I dont think Varuna, Acon or NCA are really breaking any records, but continue to be solid sectorials. MO is in a weird place but thats about to change so nothing really to be said. Sval is simply one of the most lopsided sectorials in play. It is being held up by the Karhu and the same link that is present in 3 other sectorials with a dash of Sval thrown in. The karhu is one of the most amazing units in the game in terms of raw output with a 5 man. I have no idea why he's a wildcard, it makes other choices in sectorial extremely questionable outside of HI for resilience in ARO. The locust and nokken problem has been done to death and the koj/boyg issue is present as well in similar manner. The lack of hidden info throughout the sectorial makes it rely on such a heavy handed piece as the Karhu wildcard. The poor nisse is honestly in a bad spot because of it. Characters are all over the place in terms of usefulness. Agnes is a patch to fix the cost of links and offers little herself while being incongruent being an Acon character. The fact that we came from Varuna to this is troubling. The sectorial has so much overlap in itself and outside it feels generic. There is a laundry list of thing I would like to see to make Sval a better sectorial from replacing fusiliers with a different line troop (marksman rifle) to remaking profiles to make them more distinct and general focus of the sectorial. The lack of ambush doesn't make it feel like a winter warfare unit.

    Overall my experience with PanO in N4 has me a bit underwhelmed in certain aspects and worried about others. Against non hacking armies, I'm perfectly fine, but going up against Corregidor's iron curtain of repeaters has put me in more than one bind. I've had to rely on the cleanest play I can muster while hoping my opponent makes mistakes. Gunfighter quality in general raised making PanO's lead shrink while PanO's hacking and specialist quality remain roughly equivalent. I dont think PanO is awful and its certainly a damn sight better than it was a few years ago before the overhauls. I think it is a far more narrow faction than it was in N3 with some of the rules and points changes that have occurred though and that narrowness is not shared equally which causes complaints.
     
  4. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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  5. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Someone is getting their Warcor status revoked ;P
     
  6. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    dunno, posted on official CB channel, I'm not guilty your honor!
     
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  7. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Oh I know that you didn't post it from your "Warcor access". But CB might still not be happy of such ruthless exploits of their errors.
     
  8. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Ok, the KotHS seems to be first PanO manned TAG.

    The guys arms are out of the armor superstructure.

    So it seems PanO will get first manned TAG, just in S5!

    It might be really interesting if KotHS preserves his CC skills after shunning his "offensive shell". So "TAG shell as a means to deliver pilot into CC".

    (or "drive me closer my TAG, I want to hit them with my sword!)
     
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  9. SockLobster

    SockLobster Well-Known Member

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    alas, it's private

    sepulchre has tag arms!?

    Santiago hacker looking hench, and the crosiers appear to have stylish haircuts and very medieval shoulder armor

    also, the infirmarer in the back right appears to be carrying a battle standard just like the cover art!

    very nice and I am probably going to buy MO now even though I already collected like 4 entire new sectorials during this pandemic...woo!
     
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  10. Freki

    Freki Well-Known Member

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    :( video unavailable
     
  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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  12. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    Commander looks a bit boring, kinda expected at least an antenna on his helmet. Montessa... yikes, def gonna ask a friend to 3d print different heads.
    Besides that, really gorgeous minis, will order the bundle for sure.
     
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  13. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Montesa is questionable atm., I would wait for better picture.
     
  14. bkromray

    bkromray Active Member

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    I kinda like the idea of power armor motocross.
     
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  15. Firellon

    Firellon Optimising underdogs

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    Isn't it fairly self-evident that Montesa decided to put a biker helmet on top of his own knight helmet?

    upload_2021-3-5_9-51-44.png

    Feels like the Pano bike is too smart for his own good: won't start up until the driver has a bike helmet on, safety and all.
    Or, perhaps, Montesa thinks there's never enough head protection? Did anyone make him think that helmet armour modifiers stack?

    Either way, cringeworthy :P
     
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  16. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    Very mixed bag in general, especially when it comes to headwear. Why is Montesa wearing two helmets and the Crosiers none? Why isn't Mendoza wearing a hood? Why is Sepulchre a mini-Guija? Why aren't there Teutons here, do they still don't know what to do with them? Why was another perfectly workable knight changed into something completely different while Teutons remain unchanged and no one would complain if they got the biker or S5 treatment? So many questions.
     
  17. bkromray

    bkromray Active Member

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    I don't think the white paint on it does it any favors, could look better in more traditional armor colors.
     
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  18. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    The silliest thing about this one is that's it's not even a knightly or a jousting helmet; it's literally just a motocross helmet.
     
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  19. Freki

    Freki Well-Known Member

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    It's a game, armies around the world have designed silly hat / outfits in the past. So the motocross helmet is integrated to the helmet. It is nice, it is different, and from a game design perspective, it will remind the players that it is the Montessa biker when dismounted which is a big plus. I am not sure about the colour scheme though, that green, blue and yellow don't mix.
     
  20. Rumdog

    Rumdog Well-Known Member

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    Outstanding release! Is this a mine on the bikes front wheel, some sort of claymore?
    I would probably just sculpt some sort of visor with greenstuff to conceal the helmet...inside the helmet.
     
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