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Dual Brutal TAG list (asking for input)

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Natsymir, Feb 21, 2021.

  1. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    I want to build a list combining an Overdron and a Sphinx. This one was meant for a particular Decapitation map, where there are tons of elevation, making good use of the Sphinx' climbing plus, but also pretty long fire lanes, where fire superiority pieces can dominate a lot. However, I'm also interested in general, map-neutral input.

    The hope is to remove the enemy's main long-range threats with an Overdron + Sphinx alpha strike, so that the Overdron and the Q-drone can really own the long fire lanes, and together with the multiple mine-equiped troopers, make it hell for the enemy to approach the deployment zone. The Sphinx, meanwhile, are meant to hunt for the enemy HVTs, and generally be a nuisance. Because the deployment zones in Decapitation are 16" long, the Sphinx could be a complete terror there. The Daturazi are there for extra deployment zone defense, in case I have to go second, and to possibly throw some smoke if there is an ARO treath the Overdron somehow can't handle. I am aware that the hacker lieutenant is risky, but almost all other lieutenants costs too much SWC, and I really, really wanted the Liberto, as he can slow down that crucial enemy approach, and lay templates on people hiding in the midfield. Perhaps I ought to move him to the big group, even....

    However, this list falls short of 15 regular orders - having only eleven, plus an irregular trooper, though it does get those sweet TAG tactical awareness orders as well. The lieutenant order is also basically wasted, unless he uses it to lay down an E/M mine or enter suppressive fire. What do you guys feel, should you ever have less than 15 troopers in N4? Could this be a viable approach to an Overdron + Sphinx list, or would you design it differently? Is the idea just stupid?


    Dual TAGs list
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    OVERDRON Plasma Sniper Rifle(+1B) / Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 58)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    SPHINX Spitfire, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B) / DA CC Weapon. (2 | 93)
    [​IMG] SCINDRON Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    KURGAT Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, AP Mines / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21)
    SLAVE DRONE PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    SLAVE DRONE PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    SHROUDED (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    Q-DRONE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    NEXUS (Lieutenant, Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, E/M Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 8)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #1 Natsymir, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  2. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    The Lt being both crazy obvious and hackable is a huge red flag. One pitcher toss and it's over.

    I've mixed things up a little bit to get your Lt in a marker state while also populating your midfield a bit more. This is a very quick adjustment, but it's aimed at dealing with the biggest red flags that jump out of your original list.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    OVERDRON Plasma Sniper Rifle(+1B) / Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 58)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    SPHINX Spitfire, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B) / DA CC Weapon. (2 | 93)
    [​IMG] SCINDRON Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    MENTOR (Lieutenant) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 23)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 9)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 9)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    Q-DRONE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)
    CALIBAN (Engineer, Deactivator) Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    SEED-SOLDIER (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 17)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)

    5.5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  3. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    I had an idea for a more balancing between the two groups:

    Double Trouble
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    OVERDRON Plasma Sniper Rifle(+1B) / Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 58)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    Q-DRONE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)
    E-DRONE Combi Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 18)
    MENTOR (Lieutenant) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 23)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    SPHINX Spitfire, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B) / DA CC Weapon. (2 | 93)
    [​IMG] SCINDRON Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    TAIGHA Chain-colt / AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    CALIBAN (Engineer, Deactivator) Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    SLAVE DRONE PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  4. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    those are both good suggestions! I did try the list out, but not on the map I originally intended (though it was still the Decapitation mission). It worked okay but not great, and in the end, I lost the game - but it was close!

    In this particular instance, the lieutenant hacker was pretty safe, for my opponent had no pitchers or infiltrating hackers in his list, but it revealed another weakness, for I faced an Avatar.

    The Overdron and Sphinx did indeed go on a decent rampage, and I managed to kill three important enemy troopers - but it wasn't enough to truly cripple the Avatar, and I found myself having huge problems dealing with that beast, as neither of my TAGs had a good chance of hitting him. Enough hits from an Overdron will surely grind even av Avatar down, plasma ammunition is just that dangerous, but the Overdron struggles to win F2F against mimetism-6, and so does the Sphinx. I think I might need to somehow squeeze in either decent hacking or decent MSV, if the list is to be viable against things like Avatars and Cutters. On the other hand, maybe it's a fruitless endeavour; one might have to accept that, with lists such as this, it's impossible to cover all bases.

    Something this experience taught me, however, is that the Plasma sniper is absolutely my personal favourite of the Overdron loadouts. I really appreciate it's supreme ability to murder enemy snipers and missile launcher-ARO pieces, and the fact that almost nothing can reliably tank plasma sniper ammo.
     
  5. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I would shy away from the nexus hacker lieutenant, but I definitely do not think it’s necessary to hit the model cap in every list.

    If you’re using it as a pure fire superiority piece, consider the HRMC. It costs a few extra points, but it gets you a burst 5 MULTI weapon. The plasma is my favorite as well, but it’s worth trying out both.
     
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  6. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    I think in metas that tend to run a lot of heavy targets, plasma is bit worse than HRMC, as usually expensive units have high BTS, and afaik BTS comes as 0/3/6/9, not to mention that I think despite crit mechanic you still want to have a high burst weaponry, to fish out a crit (especially on an AP gun). Order count also matters, you want to be spending as less orders as possible to win a face to face roll and to wound your target.
     
  7. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    I definitely agree that there is a role for the HRMC profile, it's just, what I tend to struggle against are low-armor but long-range ARO pieces, Atalanta in Steel Phalanx especially, and in those cases the plasma is just great. However, I do agree that in the matchup against the Avatar, the HRMC would have been a better choice.
     
  8. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Templates deny cover, which effectively strips 3 points off the opponent's save. So at ARM/BTS 6, AP and a template are equal, assuming the same base damage.

    Template vs. burst is a pretty interesting tradeoff, and obviously each one is better in certain circumstances.
     
  9. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. And for the kind of targets I struggle the most against, people often deploy a doctor or engineer bot close to it, which might give me a chance to catch it in the template, too.
     
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  10. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    The only Overdron I don't like is the HRL one; I want something with as much range as possible. The Overdron is incredibly vulnerable if the enemy ever gets within 16" of it, and that's just too easy when my maximum engagement range is 32".
     
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  11. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    He's not entirely helpless. Bear in mind, the HRL is the only variant that gets an SMG. With +1 damage, that's not entirely awful.
     
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  12. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Not to mention the HRL profile is extremely aggressively costed. It's cheaper than some HI.
     
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  13. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    That's very true...but for 7 points more, you gain such a superior range band and ammo. I can see how one could go for the rocket launcher in certain cases, absolutely, but for this list, I feel like the plasma sniper range band complements the sphinx much better.
     
  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    There's some argument whether the range band on the sniper rifles is superior to the range band on a HRL+SMG (which has good close-in range), but honestly you won't hear me arguing against plasma snipers. When they're good, they're really good.
     
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  15. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    That SMG is new in N4 and I had not noticed it.
     
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  16. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

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    For me the HRL is probably the best, with the smg for close combat and also able to go for a suppressive fire for just 50 points..thats amazing

    about the plasma sniper.. i dont know bros, i love the plasma rifle,but the sniper has less dmg than a normal sniper and with the changes to the template in N4..
     
  17. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Plasma Sniper is either Damage 15 or Damage 14 ignoring the damage reduction for cover, that's as good or better than other snipers.
     
  18. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

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    Yes, but the HRL is the same, and far cheaper!
     
  19. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    On average fewer saving rolls per hit though, and worse range bands (though that's compensated by the SMG to a degree)

    All 3 Overdrons are pretty tasty, it's a really well designed unit IMO.
     
  20. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    I can definitely see the benefit of the rocket launcher + SMG; you go into suppressive, and if someone tries to deal with you with a long-range-weapon, you just drop suppressive and respond with the rocket launcher instead. I can see how that would shine extra much in an Onyx list, where you'd typically have the very long-ranged Unidron link anyhow, so the Overdron wouldn't be as necessary to cover those very long range bands, but could instead push forward a bit.
     
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