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Figuring out where to start

Discussion in 'New Users' started by Moondancerbb, Feb 9, 2021.

  1. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    @Moondancerbb As someone who just started with CodeOne several months ago and quickly stepped up into full blown Infinity N4 (which has quickly become my all-time favorite game), I'm very excited for you, and I'm bummed that you seem to have had a bad eBay experience.

    I think the Operation Kaldstrom set is a great starting point - it can play as either CodeOne or N4 depending on your taste for complexity, and it does a decent job of getting you started.

    That said, as someone who came entirely fresh to Infinity with CodeOne, having never played previous versions before, I didn't actually find that the full-blown game was too much more complicated after doing a few matches of C1 - and the tiny bit of added complexity makes the game better in many ways - so I wouldn't say that you are required to start with C1 if you just want to learn the N4 rules right off the bat. If you want to use the simpler C1 rules to get started, though, essentially this is what you'd need to do:

    1) Use the C1 pdf rulebook as your rules reference.

    2) Use the N4 Army builder to make your army list(s) (because it includes the Haqqislam units) and then ignore any of the figures' abilities/equipment that are not listed in the C1 rules (things like Religious Troop, Courage, Repeater, etc.).

    3) Use the N4 weapon list created by the army builder, but Ignore weapons and/or firing modes that utilize direct templates (e.g. grenades, missile launcher blast mode)

    4) Don't use Killer Hacker profiles (or anything other than regular Hackers), and use only the hacking programs listed in the C1 book.

    Materially, that's pretty much the only differences necessary to 'convert' the game (slight balance issues aside). Not many in these forums have even bothered with C1 since they were already ensconced in the game when it came out - I'm familiar with it is because it was my gateway into N4, though, and would be happy to offer advice if you need help converting rules and whatnot.

    Also this is just a personal thing for me, but I'd say don't bother buying the physical books for the game if you have a laptop or tablet handy and can use the pdf versions of the rules. Not only are the PDF rules already more up-to-date than the printed rules, but the ability to do a keyword search in the pdf has been LIFESAVING for me on multiple occasions, particularly because a lot of concepts are spiced throughout the book rather than being in one place.
     
    #21 Lawson, Feb 17, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  2. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    The Haqq side was re-released as an Action Pack but the Yu Jing side was replaced by Kaldstrøm & Beyond, though certain models are now available again in the Yu Jing Boosters for Code One.
     
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  3. Moondancerbb

    Moondancerbb Member

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    How do i know what models go on which bases? and what is the standard base size for Infinity? the ones i have are beveled bases can you use lip bases?
     
  4. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    The typical base sizes are 25mm, 40mm, and 55mm. Most figures will use 25mm bases though (it looks from the pics like only one of the Red Veil figures is 40mm)
    Every figure has a 'silhouette' size - which is a standardized target shape that is irrespective of the miniature's pose (so that miniatures in a particular pose do not have any gameplay advantages or disadvantages). If you look at each figure's statistics you will see a column with the letter S, for Silhouette.

    Screen Shot 2021-02-17 at 11.23.48 PM.png
    The silhouette size of this figure is 2.

    The N4 rulebook shows the following chart on page 24
    Screen Shot 2021-02-17 at 11.26.06 PM.png
    So you can see that regardless of its model's size and shape, an S2 figure should have a 25mm base and be treated as being 40mm tall. Your set may have actually come with some silhouette 'templates' to help you gauge this on the table.

    Because base size is important, and is factored in for base-to-base contact for melee and etc. you'd need to make sure that even if you were to replace the official Infinity bases, you use something of the correct size. Infinity bases are also designed to be very thin in places so they are easy to cut into so you can 'slot' in figures or use pegs on their feet to mount them securely. Because the figures are metal and much heavier than plastic minis, they definitely need to be secured well. My first experience trying to put them together was definitely stymied by this until I embraced the slots.

    Infinity bases also now have firing arcs on them (they didn't used to apparently) but if you don't use official bases, you'd need to be able to paint on 180 degree front LoF firing arc for gameplay purposes.

    A side note, if you're assembling your guys; I had been a long time out of practice with metal miniatueres when I started playing Infinity and gluing the figures together was pretty frustrating until I got some superglue accellerant to help my glue to instantly bond. Much better than trying to hold things together while it dries.
     
    #24 Lawson, Feb 18, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
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  5. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    In addition to the excellent post by @Lawson the wiki page for silhouettes is here:

    https://infinitythewiki.com/Silhouettes

    The bases with line of fire markings built in were introduced in August 2019, anything manufactured before then will have plain round bases.
     
    #25 colbrook, Feb 18, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
  6. Moondancerbb

    Moondancerbb Member

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    So been reading up and loaded up the infinity army builder and holy hell is it overwhelming. I mean how.... where... like what am i doing why is there so much? It is very much the deep end here. Is there a basic way to start building a list? X of this X of that etc? I managed to buy the red veil side of yu jing so now i have both sides of the red veil box set.
     
  7. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    The best way to get a feel for it is to put together a list and play a game! It will start to fall into place :-)

    Posting for list-building advice in the faction-specific subforums can also be helpful.
     
  8. Freki

    Freki Well-Known Member

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    TBH, enjoy the learning curve. Neither of you will have an edge for list building. You will quickly hit some of the conundrums of list building and optimizing them.
     
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  9. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    I don't know if you have the Red Veil booklet, but start with what you've got. Most Infinity demo games start with a simple 3 Zhanshi vs 3 Ghulam, then add an extra model per side until you've got the full 7. Play through the games as tutorials rather than worrying too much about balance at that point.

    Once you've got a good feel for the game and the more advanced rules like Camouflage, Combat Jump, Hacking, etc I usually recommend swapping out one or two new troopers per game.
     
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  10. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    I agree with @QueensGambit - the best way legitimately is just to start putting together lists and playing - there's not really a wrong way to build a list at this point.

    One thing that I found incredibly intimidating when starting out the game was that, unlike many other miniatures games, where the factions feel very distinct and the units themselves are obviously differentiated, everything in Infinity initially feels very homogenous and the differences between figures can be incredibly subtle until you're familiar with the game. I couldn't tell the visual differences between many of the figures (or for that matter the factions), and the fact that there are many different load-outs for the same units (for example, a given figure could function as rifleman, sniper, heavy weapons, etc.) made it a hard to understand how to choose my army and what I was supposed to be doing with my guys once they were finally on the battlefield.

    At the time I also had no benefit of anyone else who played the game, so I was playing in a meta of one. While I did get help from the forums here with some of my technical questions about the game, the biggest thing that helped me out was to just set up the game and play it against myself. Some people might scoff at that idea, since SO MUCH of Infinity can involve secret list building, hidden units, mind games, and other obfuscated information, but by simply taking those complexities off the table and fully investing myself in understanding both factions in the moment that each movement and shot occurred (and with no way to hide information from myself) I was really able to jumpstart my idea of what worked and what didn't. Obviously playing with a partner has its advantages, but I feel I developed an understanding of the game faster because I understood both sides of every interaction.

    I've really come to appreciate the subtle differences between the units and how crunchy and in-depth your choices can be when you list-build, but no one can really explain that to you - it's something you have to experience for yourself. Some figures or weapon choices look almost identical on paper, but after experiencing how they behave in several gameplay situations, you'll develop a real nuanced understanding of them. My favorite thing in playing the game has been watching as these doors open up and the systems reveal themselves through repeated play.

    If I could give any hard advice for initial building/playing the game I'd say this:

    1) there are very few wrong choices when you're starting; especially because the units are pretty balanced, the idea of a meta list is not super important.
    2) start with smaller lists (150 or 200 points EDIT: with what you get in Red Veil I think 150 points is all you can pull off) and just try and put a good variety of figures in there and hit your point and SWC limits. Especially when you don't have a large amount of figures to choose from, it can actually be really hard to spec your squad to hit your point total while also properly hitting your SWC total, and vice versa (EDIT: @QueensGambit has some thoughts on this below - my point here is essentially that, especially with the starter set, you will be very hard pressed to make a perfect balance between Points and SWC and so just making a 'legal' list will be a good learning experience - even with factions that have a good variety of SWC options to choose from, I could never build lists that balanced points and SWC really well until I expanded my collection.)
    3) Start without Hackers and then gradually introduce hacking into the game after you've played a few times and feel comfortable with the other mechanisms.
    4) Do NOT play with Fireteams/Sectorials until you have a pretty good understanding of the game and think you're ready for it - lots of people play Sectorials exclusively but the fireteam rules are a LOT on top of the basic rules.
    5) experiment with how the different weapons and equipment work on the battlefield, and don't be afraid to retcon actions if you misunderstand how something works and realize it has very bad odds to hit. Only by making rolls in a variety of situations, and a variety of ranges, will it really become clear how everything is interrelated.
     
    #30 Lawson, Feb 27, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
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  11. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    I agree with all of Lawson's post except trying to hit your SWC limit. Some factions love to bring lots of special weapons, but others don't usually hit the limit. One of your factions is Haqq - don't try to max out your SWC in Haqq. The faction isn't designed to work that way.
     
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  12. Moondancerbb

    Moondancerbb Member

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    I have run into an issue i cannot seem to find this model in my Yu jing army builder even though the package lists it as a faction model. Is it hidden under another name? I purchased some additional models to fill out our 10 model limit in yu jing faction.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    The Japanese seceded from Yu Jing during the events of the Uprising book back in 2018, this blister was discontinued at that time and replaced with a new NA2/JSA branded box of new sculpts.

    I would advise using it as any LI/MI with a missile or rocket launcher, such as a Zhanshi, Hundun, or Ye Mao.
     
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  14. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    Somewhat related, Infinity is great for allowing proxys. I use models from other armies all the time and can give your army some character.
     
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  15. Moondancerbb

    Moondancerbb Member

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    Well I opted to go for some O-12 so we could start in code one. And here is the first mini off the painting table.
    It is not very good but its the quality coming off my table currently. I tried hard on this and even tried NMM gold on the web gear but it does not look like gold. Her eyes are not the best.

    Even tried eavy metal style for the armor but isn't quite right will try again on my next model and see if i can improve over the course of the next 6 models.

    Actually my first time doing a more elaborate base as well so a lot of firsts on this model.

    My First Infinity model Kappa Trooper.
    Infinity Kappa-1(Side) 3-18-21.jpg Infinity Kappa-1(front) 3-18-21.jpg
     
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  16. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    It took me awhile to get used to the 'unexaggerated' figures in Infinity - after coming from stuff like 40k, Frostgrave, and other games with "Heroic" scale figures, the Infinity figures seem to have impossibly small faces, hands, etc. not to mention a lot of detailing/texture across the entire mini, with very few larger flat spots to break things up. It will definitely get easier once you've done a few of them, but I found them very tough at first even with years of painting experience.
     
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