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Nomads in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    Never thought of that... interesting. I love my Bandits, but wish we didn´t have to give them away by rolling Booty during Deploy...
     
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  2. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I like 1 camo Moran with BSG and 1 repeater Moran with combi. If you're sure the repeater Moran will always be hiding it's better with BSG but I often use it for other tasks as well. Camo Moran would be fine with combi, you'll figure out if that's better for you by playing it.
    Camo Moran is a great cheap specialist but not having an option with no koalas for no SWC limits it. If I had to pick access to one it would be the one we have but obviously both would be better.
     
  3. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    If we had a third moran slot I'd definitely take a camo one, but as it stands I find it real hard to give up that second repeater at the moment.
     
  4. Zmaj

    Zmaj Active Member

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    What are your thoughts on Riot Grrl with Spitfire in Vanilla? I tried to drop Intruder from my list because I only do something impactful every 2-3 games with him and 42 points is a lot for just standing around. I usually take the HMG one and he often ends up being more useful for discovering TO Camos that are intruding my DZ then for actual shootouts. But I noticed that I struggle with -6 Mimetism stuff and I started looking into MSV1 stuff. I had a suprise TTS game of Countermeasures and I made this list minutes before the game:


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    PROWLER Spitfire, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33)
    BANDIT Combi Rifle, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    PUPPET MASTERS Submachine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    PUPPETBOT (BS Attack [Shock]) AP Marksman Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14)
    PUPPETBOT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 12)
    JAZZ Hacker & BILLIE undefined / undefined. (0.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] JAZZ (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermines / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] BILLIE Flash Pulse, E/M Mines / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 6)
    ZOE & Π-WELL undefined / undefined. (0 | 44)
    [​IMG] ZOE (Hacker) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] PI-WELL Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 19)
    ZONDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    DAKTARI Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    ZONDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    MORAN (Repeater) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse, Crazykoala ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    VERTIGO ZOND Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 17)
    MODERATOR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
    MORAN (Repeater) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse, Crazykoala ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 6)

    6 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    It ended up working suprisingly well and Riot came through putting down Ryuuken KHD and Ryuuken ML, discovering and shooting one mine, tanking another mine and scoring an objective (the one requiring HI).

    What are your thoughts on this list? What would you change and how would you spend/reshuffle those 2 leftover points? I don't like using Characters, but in HC and CM Zoe seems like pure gold, and Jazz is almost autoinclude for any mission (HD+, Trinity and Billie really saves you points). Prowler usually scores objectives in HC and CM but this time around my opponent got first turn, discarded the MI objective and completed Sabotage, so Prowler was there only for shooting.

    I also started looking into Intruder MSR for missions where I take Gecko (Zone Control ones) for dealing with Mimetism, but I haven't tried it yet.
     
    #484 Zmaj, Mar 21, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
  5. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    In general I'm not a huge fan of the RG in vanilla, mostly due to Frenzy, losing cover on your main gunfighter always ends badly in my experience, would swap it out for either a hollowman spitfire or the EVAder AP spitfire.

    If you trouble with mimetism stuff just drop templates on them either from shotguns or actual DTWs which a fairly common these days and is one of the reasons why the intruder and bandit are largely a dead pieces this edition. If you want a camo dep. rep. in vanilla your are probably better looking at running a zero, it's cheaper and also picks up E/Mines.

    A gecko is a good substitute especially the marksman profile as it will shred anything you point it at, but it's also be worth looking at the Hacker vairants of the Sombra, its a little cheaper than the gecko, more durable than the Intruder, easier to hide, it can get anywhere and engage pretty much any type of target reliably and effectively.

    Like I said above I wouldn't really bother with the intruder. As for why, It is a 40ish point single wound model without shock immunity that relies on surprise to be effective inn an environment where fireteams are everywhere and Shock is being handed out to pretty much everything you end up hinging your main attack piece, 40ish points and 1.5 SWC on kinda meh odds, and that was towards the end of N3, in N4 things got worse for it. Now between most things being given a DTW and the godawful change to shotguns, and again the increased proliferation of shock ammo and fireteams which just exacerbated existing issues, you also need to include the largely ineffectual weapons it is armed with, A shock marksman rifle, a tool that is is really only good for killing chaff units which we can do with other stuff more effectively, a HMG, which is again really only good for killing chaff and will more than likely bounce off of anything with an armour value which is largely all you see being left out on defence these days or are the major threats you need to hunt down. Which leaves the sniper, the MSR is invaluable this edition, and is a good active turn trouble shooter, and has a niche place in CJC but still has all the same problems inherent to the platform, however in vanilla, it can be and is out performed by dedicated snipers like Knauf who can put a hole in the brain pan of anything on the table but is just as fragile or Armand who has functionally 2 wounds and mimetism -6 both have a visor as well. But if you aren't a fan of characters then the marksmanship Grenzer does a pretty good impersonation of the Intruder MSR.
     
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  6. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Intruder HMG and MSR are a bit costly for what you get, in an N4 setting.

    Intruder Shock MMR though has a KHD too, and I find it super handy for nasty gunfights mixed with hacker-solving. It's a good little kit.
     
  7. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    does it though, there are either options that are cheaper and better that you care less about if you lose them like the bandit or a bit more expensive and are more versatile, for example, for a few more points you get a KHD sombra if you are desperate for a khd for whatever reason, with also has an extra wound, climbing plus a more versatile weapon kit. sure you lose out on the 24" range but that's irrelevant on a camo marker as you can just get within 16 anyway.
     
  8. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    None of those bring all the tools the Intruder KHD SMMR has. The visor/camo/24"range mix is really handy. With Elite on there too, they're the right tool for a lot of Classifieds. Sombras are fin but both slightly more expensive and lacking the Elite status for Classifieds.

    Both are fine. I find the Intruder more useful for troubleshooting, the Sombra is more of an attack piece.
     
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  9. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I can see that, it does pack a lot of nice stuff into one model and it looks great on paper, but so do moiras.. You also end up with most of that kit spread around many other units in the army making less important to have it all on one piece especially in the way that CJC and Nomads build lists where it is about many mutually supportive units working a whole as opposed to the approach of other factions where it is all about a single star unit carrying the game.
    But I've found the SMMR to be the least effective profile in my testing, and on a camo piece you can normally exploit holes in an opponent's defences to push into those tighter range bands that make the 24" superfluous. I just find the platform overall exemplifies all the systematic issues with MI and by extension those elite and expensive single wound units.
     
  10. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Intruders relied on being the only ones that could do their job, so it didn't matter how much they cost. In the current edition that isn't true. The MMR is the interesting profile, but I haven't taken it yet because my current meta is very armor focused. If it was AP instead of shock I think it would be perfect, because a mix of MSV and AP is hard to get other than BSG.

    Relating to the GRRL, I've been taking the Wildcat spitfire to get a mimetism counter. NCO is so useful. I know the wound and armor is nice, but hackable and frenzy hurts more on the table than it does on paper. I'll admit my view of the Wildcat is biased because I can link it thou.
     
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  11. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Decompression zones are potentially pretty nice for the MSR though. That's something to keep in mind.
     
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  12. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Two shots is nice, but that PH 16 Dodge on the Grrl whenever mods for shooting are against you is awesome. ML Grrls are best not even for hitting power but for their ability to soak up opponents’ orders.

    The Wildcat’s great if you happen to have a back-rank Daktari and something else for her to link with. Problem being that other Wildcats are pretty expensive for their fragility IMO. I’ve tried the HRL as a table-control unit a couple times, and it’s just too easy to pick her off with a high-burst weapon, even in a Haris. Full link sure, but that’s a lot of not-great Wildcats (or wildcards stuffed in together can actually work well).
     
  13. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    The other thing about the SMMR Intruder is he is not a great anti armour but once he is done punking hackers he can then go hunting camo and pushing buttons in the midfield. Shooting through smoke in 8" is still a pretty nasty trick, and with his N4 4-4 move and CJCs abundant smoke he cn get there now. His price is definitely an issue tho. I do wish he kept the Lt option, that might make him more seen.
     
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  14. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Again why though? for 3 points more you get a better platform (Sombra KHD) that doesn't suffer from being an MI paperweight, can still "punk" hackers if jazz isn't cutting it for whatever reason (but realistically if she can't kill it what hope does any other cjc khd have, and in vanilla you have mary who is a KHD actually worth the time and order investment to use), more mobile, durable which allows it to be able to trade wounds with its shotgun if it needs to and can engage both armour and soft targets and carry out mission objectives. If the Intruder kept it's hacking device instead of downgrading it would be a more interesting option, as it stands it is either a more expensive and/or less versatile option compared to other pieces that fill a similar role in the faction, it's borderline pointless.

    Before anyone brings it up, more range is not more better, you have a marker state, if you can't leverage that to get into an advantageous position especially with climbing plus with the sombra then good luck leveraging the intruder. Additionally we have other 24"+ weapons on other platforms that are just as good at killing the low end chaff a SMMR is good at killing, and again is either cheaper or means you wont be relying on a 1w scrub that is in all likely hood is going to either just trade or die before getting there
    MSV2, its nice, but you have a shotgun, and if that doesn't do it there are other pieces either msv1 which is good enough or can beat it up. as for smoke shooting, the more I play n4 the more I find to be a waste of order expenditure that is only effective against stuff you could easily win against without it.

    TL,DR: its too fragile, too ineffective, too expensive and other stuff does it's job better
     
  15. Ghost87

    Ghost87 Well-Known Member

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    Fluff-wise the intruder is badass and feared. Equipment-wise he is outperformed by the new toys ...sad
     
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  16. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    I think that would be fine in an exclusive Corregidor profile.
    It would be disgusting in Vanilla though.
     
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  17. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Agreed: Nomads’ main weakness, covered up by being hidden under a marker... and also on a utility profile. Too much, if given alongside the rest of the Nomad bag of tricks (as opposed to Corregidor’s bag of bricks).
     
  18. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Repeating it definitely does not make it true. The HMG and MSR profiles are glass cannons and mono-dimensional still. The SMMR is pretty useful.

    As for the new toys: yeah some of the new Nomad units are borderline overoptimized. Let’s not crap on everything that is in the normal band.
     
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  19. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Sombra, who's already at the frontline thanks to FD +8", has Climbing+, NWI, SI.
    Intruder's advantage over mr. sombrero would be MSV2, which goes well with HMG or MSR. So when I really want to trim out enemy turrets first, any smoke throwers and an Intruder might be the choice.

    But universally, SMMR Intruder could easily be replaced with Sombra KHD, in my opinion. Already at the line, cracks harder with Multi rifle, BTS 6, could be a pain in the bottom if positioned nicely with Climbing+.
     
    #499 Ugin, Mar 26, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
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  20. redeemer

    redeemer Well-Known Member

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    JCC got some nice stuff after the nerf to smoke+ intruder combo with N4. can't wait to get my Jazz model she is amazing and a new member of my core team :P
     
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