I will also add that I printed a nice looking head with a topknot, replaced the helmet on the YJ Starter Multi-Combi Zuyong, and now have a FTO Krit Kokram. The regular Krit mini got a BSG-looking weapon for the other nice profile.
I see... so, thank you all for replies. Really thank you. (Even if you think, starter was a bad idea, but yes, zhanshi. And I really like that miniature of tiger soldier. So, some of that was at least for my heart :] ) I’ll focus on REMs. Plus I really like their sculpts. And Krit Kokram, but later. Still miss my tohaa, but now I feel myself in a right place too.
I'd go for the SWC box for the zanshi, frankly... nobody will say anything if they proxy the Combi option, since all four models are very easy to tell apart (the hacker carries a combi, too XD), or if I needed the basic zanshi too much, Kaldstrom's YJ side is more appealing to me, frankly (more expensive for sure, but I think it has better options to go into vanilla). Just my opinion, however, and I'm aware I suffer more to have models I won't use than having to buy more. Yeah, one of the mantras for Infinity, regardless of faction, is "support pack, and remotes boxes", you can't go wrong there ^^
Nah. Hsien HMG makes for an excellent proxy, particularly for Shang-Jesus IMO, and you can't go wrong with having a Ninja for when you eventually branch out to other factions or vanilla YJ. Zhanshi SWC pack has the issue of having two of four miniatures with large, obvious, weapons that you will probably not use. I'd put that fairly far down the list of purchases personally.
I'm now finding myself using less Zuyong, other than characters, and upgrading them to Shang Ji. The Shang Ji has a lot going for it now. Just the base Multi-rifle is now AP+Shock, and DA+Shock. Having Number 2 on everyone of them is fantastic. And Terrain total comes into play a bit more often as well. But I think maybe the best thing is the BTS 6 with being able to take a Tinbot B. The hacker is one of the factions best hackers with that BTS6 and WIP13. Even better than the Hac Tao who costs a hell of a lot more and doesn't get a Tinbot. I also still take a Haidao Engineer like I did before but Now I use the the SJ hacker instead of the Haidao KHD. These four have been my Go To team. They can do almost anything I need them to do. Then the 5th member can be another Shang Ji, or Zhanshi, Krit, Tai, Haidao, or a Zuyong. SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49) SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) SHÀNG JÍ (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41) HǍIDÀO (Engineer, Deactivator) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25) Now if CB would just put a @#$% box of them!
I've really been liking Shang Ji over Zuyong too. A couple of other things I've particularly liked is the fact that they all pack templates - N3 Invincibles had a lot of trouble with melee/CQC guys in general imo - and the higher PH. I know PH is often the dump stat of choice, but dodging seems like a much bigger deal this edition and paramedic'ing on 14s (especially if you've got B2) is so good. The only issue with Shang Ji-heavy teams like that is that the points just add up so fast, it's hard to fit much else in the list.
I've got to agree on points! I found that in some cases with Zuyong, I may save some points but after I have a team together, I can't get anything that's worthwhile. It kind of depends on the mission I suppose. For CC, the Hulang helps a bit. And a B5 SMG and E/M grenades don't hurt!
────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 2 SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49) SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) SHÀNG JÍ (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41) CHIEF JEONG K1 Combi Rifle, AP Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29) HÚLÁNG FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Submachine Gun(+1B), E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 36) 3.5 SWC | 193 Points Open in Infinity Army Too bad it is also 2/3 of the army... how to pad it up?
I find it hard to do IA without knowing a mission. So lets say this is for a mission I just made a list for. Panic Room. I'm not sure I'd do Jeong in that. The Hulang would help with any CC specialists sent into the main room. All SJ are Number 2 for Essential Personnel. I'd got with Kokram instead, because of NCO and a character as well. There's still plenty anti-armor in there. If going second and enemy is already in the room, the Lu Duan HFT, several chain colts and E/M grenades will be pretty helpful. If already in, the SJ are pretty tough and hard to hack, If they are, hacked, of course there's an ENG to help. The Zhanshi is there because I had the points but also he can go into the link at any point and it turns in to a Zhanshi link rather than a SJ team. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 2 SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49) SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) SHÀNG JÍ (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41) KOKRAM FTO MULTI Rifle(+1 Dam), Chain-colt, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 36) HÚLÁNG FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Submachine Gun(+1B), E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 36) DĀOYĪNG (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) RUI SHI Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23) LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B) ( | Deployable Repeater) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24) ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Interesting. I did build a list but the LuDuan is something I wanted to explore more. You are right of course about building a list in a vacuum. Even then, I kinda like the Chief because if you are IMM due to a repeater nearby, he can go up and restore a ShanJi without harm, unlike Krit or a HaiDao. Krit FD is honestly so good I cannot see past him. I would entertain something like this for the laughs. Ultimate Paintrain ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 2 SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49) SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) SHÀNG JÍ (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41) CHIEF JEONG K1 Combi Rifle, AP Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29) HÚLÁNG FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Submachine Gun(+1B), E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 36) KOKRAM (Forward Deployment [+8"], Minelayer) Heavy Shotgun, E/Mitter, E/M Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 41) DĀOYĪNG (Lieutenant [+1 Order], Minelayer) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Shock Mines / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 34) LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B) ( | Deployable Repeater) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) 4.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
The LD can also lay down a repeater if needed. All forms of Krit are ENG so he can do the same as Jeong. True Jeong is immune to hacking himself though. I also like Krit has more wounds. You know some deadly stuff is going to be sent into the room! I hear you about the FD version! I like him so far. However this is a mission that has a confused deployment and if he doesn't make his PH roll at -3, he's starting in the deployment anyway. I know SJ are more points that Zuyong but I think you get a lot of good bank for the buck. I tried switching out the SJ for Zuyong and Haidao. I gained 36pts. but i'm not sure that helped me a lot. At least not for this mission. I've now only one Essential personnel with Kokram in the room. and guys with lower BTS for hacking and this mission has a Biotechvore all around the board! Also, the Zhansi paramedic can no join that team if they go down a guy. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 2 ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Machine Gun / CC Weapon, Breaker Pistol(+1B). (1.5 | 37) ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / CC Weapon, Breaker Pistol(+1B). (0 | 31) HǍIDÀO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24) KOKRAM FTO MULTI Rifle(+1 Dam), Chain-colt, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 36) HÚLÁNG FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Submachine Gun(+1B), E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 36) DĀOYĪNG (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) RUI SHI Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23) LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B) ( | Deployable Repeater) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24) ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) GROUP 2 2 MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16) 4 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army
Zuyong have Number 2, they are essential personnel By the way, why add a Son-Bae and remove the only hacker?
Sorry, my bad on both accounts! I forgot Zuyong have #2 themselves. However the Haidao is not an Essential. I would make the extra Mech Engineer at Zhanshi hacker probably. However now it's running into weird split groups. And still, neither Zhanshi can join the link. There's also still biotechvore to contend with. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 2 ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Machine Gun / CC Weapon, Breaker Pistol(+1B). (1.5 | 37) ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / CC Weapon, Breaker Pistol(+1B). (0 | 31) HǍIDÀO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24) KOKRAM FTO MULTI Rifle(+1 Dam), Chain-colt, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 36) HÚLÁNG FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Submachine Gun(+1B), E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 36) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) RUI SHI Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23) LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B) ( | Deployable Repeater) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24) ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16) GROUP 2 2 1 DĀOYĪNG (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22) ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16) WARCOR (Sixth Sense) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) 4.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
You've got two beacons that can keep something like a Son-Bae or Husong from spontaneously combusting, but you need to enter that scenario with the mind set of being ready to sack some of your units to the zone. I'd also prioritise the Shang-Ji Hacker simply because the likelihood of your opponent pushing mid with a hacker is fairly low, but the likelihood of pushing it with a heavy infantry is fairly decent and if they don't then clearing a warband out to claim the points is much easier when they're targeted. If Haidao was anything remotely decent in melee (and they're quite far from challenging a Warband), then the KHD's Cybermask for template prevention would have been decent, but unfortunately they are not and they also have somewhat low WIP to challenge enemy hackers through hostile Repeaters. I think the biggest brain tech you have in that list is the Hulang who can toss E/M 'nades on Repeaters if you're good at judging ZoCs.
I've been considering alternate gunfighters in an aggressive core, and I wanted to throw out there for discussion: HÚLÁNG FTO (Fireteam: Duo) MULTI Rifle, Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 39) HǍIDÀO Red Fury / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 26) Hulang: The extra Burst on the SMG is great, but I wonder about having the Hulang as the point gunfighter with the longer-range MULTI rifle, having a mim-6 point man shooting on good numbers out to 16 and threatening with B2 DA in ARO isn't bad, and it's not like closing with him makes things easier. Haidao: The Haidao brings our only core-linkable Red Fury (White Banner can do this with a Tian Gou, ISS has no core-linkable RF). The Shang Ji platform's native Shock on everything makes it really hard to opt for the Haidao RF instead of a Shock AP HMG and a Shock MULTI Rifle covering each others' bad ranges, but the Haidao clocks in fully ten points cheaper than the cheapest basic Shang Ji, and in an aggressive core or haris it might be an interesting trooper to slot in when you really need those points somewhere else. I don't think I've seen either of the above in any lists posted around here, and I understand why — you don't need to explain to me how tasty the E/M grenades on the Hulang SMG profile are. What I'm interested in are listbuilding approaches that aren't the near-netlist standard Zhanshi core + usual suspects. Anyway, I'm going to try these out in some upcoming games and see how they do.
My issue with those two profiles as primary gunfighters is that they both need someone to escort them out of the DZ and into the midfield, especially given the lack of smoke in the sectorial. That means you need someone with an HMG to get them out of the DZ, which means you've probably picked a Shang Ji up anyway. As a backup gunfighter the Red Fury isn't bad, it's cheap at least and I've used it a few times. As far as alternative primary gunfighter goes I think you're better off picking up the MSR Haidao. The MSV gives it alternative value and you can try and outrange HRL/FB/HMG ARO pieces.
Although I like the ideia on the Hulang in a Fireteam, I am just partial to midfield presence (that made me sweat a LOT in N3). The Hulang SMG starting further up and with Stealth has been super useful for getting a Koala forward, sneak into HMGs/MSR or MLs. It has AP, it has Shock, it can lob grenades... just beware linked hackers. But I have found gaps in the midfield to make this work. Even closing in TR Bots and killing them easily thanks to ODD+Cover plus bad range (for them).
But, as I mentioned above, there's mission in which the midfield is not an option or chancy option, like must roll a PH-3 to do it. He only has a PH of 12. So being a link is a pretty good option to move him up. I've been wanting to try this link for a awhile but I haven't found missions in which it's very appropriate other than killy missions. But RF are great for those too. If you really need to put down the enemy you want at least a couple I think. HǍIDÀO Red Fury / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 26) HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33) HǍIDÀO (Engineer, Deactivator) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25) ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16) SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49)
You have AVA 2 in IA, you don't need to pick either-or, you can pick both if you can convince yourself to spend the points on it... which probably results in all AVA 4 of Zhanshi used to fuel a Shang-Jesus or Haidao sniper
After some thoughts I am trying to see something good in this amount of heavy infantry... Isn’t it too much of hackable units? How could I really protect myself from it? Zuyong have armor not more than some medium infantry, but medium infantry is not hackable. Plus ap and k1 is a problem too... I am in a frustration
