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The Good Guys Wear Orange - An RTF Blog

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Grotnib, Oct 29, 2020.

  1. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    I'm more than happy for this to be the general RTF threat, and one of my aims with this blog is to stir up a conversation! Then again, I am no authority on the subject of playing Ramah - I'm merely a guy who loves the sectorial and the game! If my enthusiasm can spark discussion, great; if a group of people can find some common ground; great, but I'm not expecting anyone of agree with me! I'm not partaking in the conversation to sway opinions, but merely trying to clarify what I mean with the stuff I write...

    My longtime dream is to be the author of the fifth coolest RTF blog on this forum; the fact that the threat I begun as my blog's newsfeed has turned into the place for the Ramah discussion I feel has to do with circumstances and not any excellence on my part!

    All the same, thank you everyone who take part in the discussions on this threat - it's great to hear feedback on my articles and read people's thoughts on the coolest faction in the game! :muscle:
     
  2. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    This week I finally got to the first Heavy Infantry unit of Ramah Taskforce, so que in the Hortlak Janissaries!
     
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  3. Danger Rose

    Danger Rose The Wrecking Belles

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    I'm reevaluating playing Ramah Task Force. Your articles have been very informative and entertaining. I tend to agree with your assessments. Looking forward to the rest of the articles!
     
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  4. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

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    I should start with a clarification. Fireteam: Haris is a skill (that Hortlaks don't have) but Fireteam: Core is not. This means that you can't make a haris without a "real" Janissary, but you can make a core.

    With that out of the way, I think you're undervaluing the snipers. They dont have DA ammunition, but if you run them in a core for sixth sense, they end up being the best parts of a Kamau and Haidao combined for something more oppressive than either. The lack of DA ammunition means your less likely to get kills in ARO, but doesn't hurt your face to face rolls. The problems with the Hortlak are that it cant link with line infantry, so it's much harder to include with a core, and that its much more dependent on that core due to only having MSV1.

    That being said, I often take a haris consisting of the AP sniper, a Janissary HMG, and either Leila or Rouhani. The sniper cant dominate the whole board like it can in a core, but can lock down a portion of that table where the opponent lacks MSV and/or smoke or slow down a premium gunfighter.

    Oh, and the chain of command model absolutely carried my last game by shutting down an O-Yoroi and then taking over when Tarik went down.
     
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  5. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your kind words, it's great to hear that you've found some of my stuff to be helpful! I'll try my best to measure up to your expectations in the future! :)


    You are quite right, a mistake on my part! I'll look into amending the article on this part, and I'll mention your feedback on the editing notes! Thank you! When it comes to actual list building, I fear this doesn't really change much... With Hortlaks being AVA 2, you could technically run a "Janissary Core" without Janissaries with two Hortlaks, a potential Namurr, and a number of Wild Cards to get to the number of team members you're aiming for, but why would you?

    I'm sorry if you got the impression that I'm down on the Hortlak Sniper; I'm really not! My aim was to look at him as a solo piece in this article, I'm hoping to cover Janissary Fireteams when I get to the base unit! But now that we are on the subject: the problem with the setup you're describing is (to me) that you're building a mighty expensive team (no matter the Wild Cards you slot in) to give the Hortlak Sniper the (full) bonuses you're after! What to me makes the Kamau and Haidao so powerful is the fact that you can throw them into a Core of basic Light Infantry, and thus you gain the benefits of Fireteam bonuses for little cost.

    Where I feel the Hortlak Janissary falls off is the huge opportunity cost that accompanies bringing him in a Fireteam; you have to splash out for mid-cost to expensive models, and to get the full Core Team Bonuses you have to sacrifice the ability to form (or atleast maintain) a "Ghulam" Fireteam - thus my problem with the pick isn't tactical, but rather strategic. But this comes down to my playstyle at the end of the day; from what I've read online and listened to in podcasts, people do enjoy playing Janissary Fireteams, though I do feel they are subpar to what many other factions Heavy Infantry Fireteams can muster, but more on that in a future article!

    And yea, I hear you about the ammo - DA isn't a requirement for a good Sniper, but I personally do feel it is a requirement for a great one! But on this and everything else, we can disagree and that's fine, no, actually it's great - there is no one truth on the subject!

    Haha, sweet! That's so great to hear! :)
     
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  6. WWHSD

    WWHSD Well-Known Member

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    RTF doesn’t really have much access to snipers. Unless I missed something they are limited to:
    Ghulam
    Zhayedan
    Tuareg
    Hortlak

    Of these, the Hortlak is the only one that has the option of taking anything but a basic Sniper Rifle (he has access to an AP version) and seems to be the best all around choice for a Sniper.

    The Tuareg and Zhayedan may find situations where they outshine the Hortlak and the Ghulam is less than half the cost, but the Hortlak has the highest BS of the bunch and is the only one that can shrug off a hit and keep doing his job. Add in his visual mods, extra punch, and mimetism and he’s easily the best Sniper RTF has access to.

    I’d have trouble justify taking him over Knauf or Armand in Vanilla but he doesn’t have much competition in RTF.
     
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  7. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    Hence I called Hortlak Janissary "the premier RTF Sniper" in my article! ;)
     
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  8. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

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    You rarely would. I did take a list recent that had a core of Tarik, Yara, Bill, Rouhani, and a Hortlak, but that was a very specific setup for Panic Room. Another alternative is that I feel that taking two elite teams of 3 is a viable option. I rarely do it, but I know they did a Bromad Academy about it a while back. That being said, I would probably still take a Janissry HMG.

    That's entirely true. Something like a Haidao or Kamau will generally be in a cheap team built around it. You can't do this with a Hortlak. But it is, in my opinion, a key model in the Jaanissary core. In that case, you need to be leveraging the other models in that team to be getting the full value out of it. It's definitely not my preferred playstyle, but I've had success with teams like Janissary HMG/Hortlak AP Sniper/Hortlak SMG/Leila/Rouhani.

    Very true! Though I will elaborate a bit more on my thinking. I very rarely use snipers as active turn pieces. Defensively, I want a linked sniper to take a disproportionate amount of orders to dislodge, and any damage it does is a bonus. That's why I don't particularly mind that the sniper doesn't have DA.

    I agree, the Hortlak will probably have the biggest impact on the table of the four. It's probably the hardest ARO piece Ramah has. But I wouldn't discount the Ghulam sniper either. It stop your opponent for long, but it might slow them down a bit, and it's cheap enough that you won't miss it at all.
     
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  9. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    Superheroes to the rescue, that's cool! :D

    I try to build this types of list from time to time too, but the setup I tend to gravitate to is a three man Khawarij and a three man Zhayedan - so by just adding two Ghulams the Khawarij are suddenly a five man "Ghulam" team! :D But I could totally see a 3 member "Janissary" Core and a Haris of Zhayedan/Mukhtar!

    Absolutely! If you're looking to burn opposing orders rather than kill their models, there's no need to get hung up on the DA! I too see Double Action as more important for models who are interested in pivoting to attack roles from time to time!

    I too love the Ghulam Sniper - at it's pricepoint (16pts/0,5SWC) it doesn't even have achieve much to be worth the inclusion! I also feel that all the RTF Snipers are situationally good additions the a Ramah striketeam (both from the Strategic and Tactical viewpoints); we just don't throw them into lists willy-nilly like is the case with the Haidao and the Kamau in their respective sectorials...
     
    #89 Grotnib, Feb 5, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
  10. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    @Koval I've now updated the Hortlak Janissary article based on your observation about the possibility of forming a Core Fireteam without Janissaries! I've taken note of your valuable input on the editing notes and the end of the article; thank you again! :)
     
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  11. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    This week I'm finally taking a look at one of the most (in)famous units in RTF - the Al Fasids!
     
  12. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    As of today, all the articles I've written for the Good Guys Wear Orange blog combined have been read in excess of two thousand times... I don't know what I was expecting when I started this little passion project, but surely this is more than I could ever dream! Huge Thank You to everyone who's read any of my stuff, commented on my work or my thoughts in any way, and/or taken part in the ensuing discussion!!!

    I truly hope that I can complete what I've started, and end up with a unit focus article on every of unit of RTF! What happens if I get there? I guess we'll have to wait see!

    Once again, thank you all!
     
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  13. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    You're absolutely right that these big guys got moves - took the HRL against a Nomad list with a guided missile bot, and the combination of Sixth Sense (and high Phys), and the high armour, meant my opponent's first turn was spent mostly trying to get him unconscious. With a Nasmat synchronised with a Muhktar Doctor (thanks for that tip!) nearby, it's a tough cookie to crack.

    Meanwhile, a Zhayedan HMG took out a core fireteam single-handedly - marksmanship really levels the playing-field (a Zhayedan is a little fireteam in a can!).
     
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  14. Cadwallon

    Cadwallon Well-Known Member

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    @Grotnib, if you admit petitionsI would like to see your review from zhayedan intervention troops.

    Thanks!
     
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  15. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    It's so great to hear from other people's experiences - especially when they are as great as yours! :)

    Zhayedans truly are both great at their job, and extremely self sufficient to boot; I love them!

    Petitions are more than welcome, cheers mate! The Zhayedans have been the article "for not this week, but the next" for a good while now! The text itself is in a good shape, but I'm yet to complete painting (I use the term loosely here ;P) the last two Zhayedans, and that has been the reason for the delay! But after reading your wishes, I'll make sure to put finishing the models at top of my "to do" -list; I'll try and provide the article for you at the earliest opportunity!

    Thank you for your comment and your interest! :)
     
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  16. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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  17. Danger Rose

    Danger Rose The Wrecking Belles

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    Leila was a staple of my lists in QK. The addition of E/M mines is quite an interesting one (I would have prefered Viral Mines, but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth).

    I still haven't played with Ramah (I'm having a hard time getting used to TTS), but Yara has become my obvious Lt while list building, which still gives me a nagging feeling that it's not a good move.
     
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  18. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    True that, especially 20 point gift horses! :D

    Well, that doesn't have to be a terrible move either! She is somewhat sturdy, and in many missions it's okay to lose your LT on your last active turn, so you can play fast and loose with her at the end of the game... That's something I used to do sometimes with Breaker Rifle Zhayedan back in N3 - he'd lay low and keep his head down, waiting to go for a run at the last possible chance, or to perform a desperate counter attack against an enemy rambo that had penetrated my lines (at that point it was already pretty much do or die anyway)! Though if I were to run Yara as my Lieutenant, I'd be sure to bring an "obvious LT decoy" in the form of a Ghulam - especially so against opponents who I'd expect to go for an assassination. I might even slightly misdeploy the Ghulam to entice them; nowadays you don't even have tell your opponent whether the model that go killed is actually your Lieutenant! ;)
     
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  19. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting. I've been putting Yara in pretty much every Ghulam core I take as the primary gunfighter, but I don't think I've ever had her be my lieutenant. That's just too big of a risk for me. Instead, I often take one or two rifle + light shotgun Ghulam and make one of them the lieutenant. The extra command token is pretty useful, too.
     
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  20. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry friends, but real life is keeping way too busy for me to complete an article for this week! There are one or two pieces I could rush out in order to have some content released, but that would propably lead to compromised quality, and I'm not willing to risk that!

    I'll be working my hardest to complete my Zhayedan article for next week! :)
     
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