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Custodier Lt and Assassination in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Hachiman Taro, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I like the Custodier Lt a bit more in N4 than N3 (particularly in BJC). Hacking is a nice use of a Lt order (and KHDs are a little less OTT as a threat to them), and Cybermask can keep her fairly safe if I'm worried and get 1st turn.

    If I get 2nd turn though, her WIP makes her pretty obvious in N4 (You're probably not taking 2 WIP 14 It options unless you have Kusanagi I guess). It hasn't actually happened but a Lt kill from say spec fire or an exploding AD seems a hard risk to mitigate, even if I drop her from reserve.

    A lot of these issues also apply to Interventor Lts I think.

    How do people mitigate the threat of 1st turn LOL with good but squishy obvious Lts -or do we just accept that risk as just the Nomad way?
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Deploy them far back in your DZ with defenders in the way. Have some people covering the angles of approach so that AD or DZ parachutists can't get to them.
     
  3. SpectralOwl

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    Mimetism-6 can save a Custodier from a lot of shooting threats, especially with Cover and a Spotlight for a giant 12-point swing, but things like shotguns and CC Impersonators are a threat they can't handle alone. I prefer to put mine on an elevated surface with a few Morlocks around to keep most targets away, and rely on good dice to keep away the likes of aggressive Combat Jumps.
     
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  4. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Yeah I don't worry too much about it getting shot or hacked (because it can be defended and/or look after itself) or even fiday'd (because I can drop from reserve away from it). But a yolo Liu Xing or spec grenade, or pheroware play for 1st turn LOL concerns me a little, even if it's a not too common threat.
     
  5. Rejnhard

    Rejnhard Well-Known Member

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    When in vanilla you can also take a couple securitate to make assassination less rewarding and appealing
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Explode is actually garbage odds, wouldn't be hyper concerned about it. Assuming you dodge only 20.25% chance to take a wound.

    What you should be scared of is a linked pitcher being tossed at your LT and then sucking up an Oblivion to the face. It's more common now given Gromoz is more attractive in various merc options.

    A WIP 13 BTS3 hacker offensively Oblivioning your Custodier LT through their repeater comes in at 55% success, which for Infinity is actually pretty high up there in F2F contests, and if you're mirror matching into Nomads obviously the odds just get worse.

    You need to be wary of deployable repeaters on camo infiltrators too. They can suicide a repeater to project fairly deep coverage into your lines, with 2 orders you're not guaranteed to be safe unless you're deployed 3" or less from the back table edge, and if they can get 3 orders you're fucked no matter where you sit the Custodier. I've seen Hunzakuts totally catch people out like this, and I'd be far more scared of a Guilang setting up a repeater on your Custodier than I would be about the Liu Xing getting at it.
     
    #6 Triumph, Feb 11, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  7. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I guess so. I feel like if a non nomad is gonna try to take me on at hacking they're gonna have a bad time tho. Even if they do snipe my Lt. There is OTHER Nomads tho.
     
  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    There are several hacking competent factions outside of Nomads that will pretty easily go toe to toe with you in this case.

    Druze, Bahram, Dahshat, ForCo, WhiteCo, StarCo are all on that list of core linkable pitchers that can reach across the table and punk your LT into isolation on turn 1.

    And seriously don't discount the suicide depreps. It takes all of 1 hacker on the otherside of that to put you into LoL at the start of the game.
     
  9. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    Valerya isn’ the most competent pitcher thrower, but White Co does get guilangs for dep repeaters run.
     
  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    She's no Druze that's for sure, but she's actually statistically very reliable when she's core linked.

    When you factor in she's doing Normal rolls and she's on B2, even at BS 8 she's 64% to place a repeater up to 40" away. If you can set it up so she's firing at 24" range band she's 79.75%.

    In the scheme of Infinity these are really reliable shots to take, and the payoff of knocking out an important piece and guaranteeing LoL on turn 1 for these odds? It's definitely far from a bad thing to attempt, people run far riskier odds trying to shoot their way past ARO pieces every game for less immediate value.
     
    #10 Triumph, Feb 11, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  11. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    I may just have my own personal bias affecting me with missing “easy shots” of non-targetables. Especially in the case of a pitcher when you only get the one shot to shoot them.
     
  12. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Baggage bots solve your problems, and reloading in N4 is immensely easier thanks to changing to ZoC rather than B2B. If you're running expendable ammo you should have 1 in the list.
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Also I apologise I think I had a setting fucked up on the Pitcher math in the calculator, it's 64% and 79.75% success rates for BS8 and BS11 respectively. Still high odds for Infinity given the risk/reward ratio.
     
  14. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    That is definitely a good point. I’ve had one game so far taking a hacker-heavy WB list with a SML, and needless to say my opponent did not deploy properly and got turn 1 nuked LoL.
     
  15. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Varuna, Aleph, Haqq (though they also have other existential threats) and O-12 also aren't completely terrible at having either pitcher make the shot or a dep rep make a suicide run.
     
  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    So to illustrate the point of Nomad hubris in believing that they are part of a small group of untoucheable factions that possess viable hacking threats, last night I watched WhiteCo punk CJC who did not take the hacking threat they posed with due seriousness and immediately had their LT bricked by a Guilang running a repeater into his face on the top of turn 1 and a Danavas hacking his brains, along with a Sombra and a Tsyklon.
     
  17. 1337Bolshevik

    1337Bolshevik Let them eat repeaters

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    Had this happen to me. Bit launched a pitcher at my MB LT and at jazz. Killed jazz first then isolated the LT. Really needed to have put jazz into the link with a tinbot.
     
  18. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    A few extra points to add to this;

    1: My forward defensive pieces designed to slow stop this from happening got picked apart and overrun.
    2: I fucked up positioning in that Jazz was not physically close enough to cover the Tsyklon and the Brigada in the event of a repeater landing near them
    3: Hubris, in the past I had been able to to lean on forward repeaters and Sombra + Jazz to deter the majority of inbound hacking threats or just going first and removing them.


    I have since added a tinbot back into the list, but thats not the be all and end all. It doesnt stop them from brute forcing a spotlight or oblivion through, or even suiciding the hacker to do it. even with proper positioning on Jazz if goes to oblivion or trinity the enemy hacker it means the brigada either needs to fall out of the link to reset (probably the incorrect move in most circumstances as you are only likely to see one or maybe two hackers this addition), or sit there do nothing and hope that the -6 wip mod and +3 BTS saves it and that Jazz can render the enemy hacker combat ineffective.
     
  19. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
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    I almost always took / take the Moderator Lt. and normally I play at least three of them (only exceptions: Hunting Party in the past or in general Missions with a public Lt.). So even with the "new" Spotlight bogus it's quite an order sink to kill my Lt.
    For N4 I don't really see any use for the Lt. Custodia apart from Moira based lists and the aforementioned public Lt. missions. I might add that back in N3 the HDplus' Suckerpunch made the Custodier way worse to hack than now, even by taking Killer Hackers into account. If I compare this to the current situation... well, she kind of sucks as a Lt.
     
  20. SpectralOwl

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    You can still use the LT Order for Cybermask or White Noise, she's resistant to things like AD assassination runs thanks to the strong Mimetism and she's a good enough gunner to sweep late-game opposition and press buttons if your Zeroes cark it. Custodier's aren't exactly top-tier LTs but they're still better than most and my usual choice- "free" White Noise on turn 1 is as powerful than ever with so many factions being able to mix MSV Snipers into cheap Cores.
     
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