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Pherobooster

Discussion in 'Spiral Corps' started by Angry Clown, Feb 6, 2021.

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  1. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    I have been trying to understand why is pherobooster is expensive for a time.

    Kriigel with smg and pherobooster is 5 pts expensive than Kriigel with breaker combi rifle and smoke grenade launcher.

    I would never take the first option. Pherobooster doesnt seem to me strong at all with burst 2.

    What do you think about it?
     
  2. jmmelo

    jmmelo Well-Known Member

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    I do agree with you... even being a technical and using WIP, and ignoring cover, it does not affect STR and now, unlike N3, it only leaves the opponent targeted if you wound. Make it a regular weapon, and maybe those extra 5pts would be worth it.
     
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  3. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    There is only one single profile using this weapon. Is it really necessary to keep this weapon?, better idea is eliminating this weapon and maybe giving spiral a pheroware tactic to make spotlight instead
     
  4. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Fortunately, the Pherobooster is part of the provisional rule annex for N4 and thus there is a possibility it sees changes in the future.

    Considering it's current state of "unabashed hot garbage" I'd say that's likely.
     
  5. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Friend of mine pointed out that since its a Comms Attack it ignores total immunity. So. That's something, at least
     
  6. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    The one that put the enemy in TARGETED state?
    And counts as a successful FO (auto Classified)?
    With Guided ammo now with a reason to exists?

    Yeah, total shit...
     
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  7. melkiach

    melkiach PheroBoosted

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    Kriigel Pherobooster/Smg + Pherotactics is a pretty well armed and have so much tools, maybe that's why it cost a few more points
     
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  8. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Burst 2 + no Fireteam bonuses + Requiring BTS fail makes it a bit situational, as does the fact that STR targets are completely immune (so no shooting TAGs with it to then follow up with Guided, and anything with 1 W is unconscious if they get hit with it anyways since it now only applies the state if they fail the BTS roll).

    It's got a nice rangeband + damage for AROs, but even in ARO the regular Kriigel in a Triad could shoot his grenade launcher for +1 Burst, -1 BS.

    There's also a slight timing issue with the "auto Classified," as if, say, an enemy in NWI takes a wound, what happens first? The damage or the Targeted state? If the damage happens first and the target dies before Targeted is applied, does it still count as a successful FO?

    And, to cap it all off, the only profile with Guided in the faction has an HRL. Certainly not bad, but VASTLY inferior to a Missile Launcher's AP+EXP, and it comes on a BS 11 Chaksa Auxiliar. Which, while fine for making Guided attacks at BS17, is not realistically going to do much else considering it lacks access to either fireteam bonuses or Assisted Fire like other Guided Bots, and without Remote Presence it's much more susceptible to getting blown off the table instead of being repairable.

    All in all, the Pherobooster is a lot less effective than it was in N3, when you got Fireteam bonuses, had a stun mode, could hit TAGs with it, and didn't need to wound to apply targeted.
     
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  9. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    No Fireteam bonus?
    upload_2021-2-12_8-41-57.png

    And being a Techincal Weapon is even used on WIP 13 instead of BS 12.

    And the most frequent Statlines have ARM higher than BTS.

    Yeah, totally awful...
     

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  10. Soul Hunter

    Soul Hunter Member

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    Technical Weapons do not gain any kind of Fireteam Bonuses!

    Quote from the N4 wiki:

    "This weapon can make BS Attacks, but uses the WIP Attribute in place of BS. When using this weapon, consider all rules and MODs that would affect the trooper's BS as affecting his WIP Attribute instead. However, the BS Attack (Shock) Skill and Fireteam Bonuses cannot be applied when using a Technical Weapon."


    All in all i don't think Pheroboosters are bad weapons but i don't see much use for it in your average Spiral Corps list. If i want to shoot something dead i just point my AP Marksmen Draal with the Tri-Core bonus at it.
     
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  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Pheroboosters get a -really good- positive range band, unlike FO. It can hit at DAM 16 in ARO, and rolls against BTS. And Guided is nasty as hell in N4.

    I'm with @tox : The whining about an actually-decent marker weapon on a profile that's already loaded with borderline-broken pheroware tactics is a bit rich guys. You're starting to sound like the YJ forums.
     
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  12. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Tox, please.

    Technical weapons don't benefit from Fireteam bonuses in N4. This was a huge point of discussion when the N4 rules came out, as it severely impacted models with Flash Pulse (like our Kaeltar) as their ARO potential dropped severely.

    Also why highlight the special triad rule? The Kriigel has Fireteam: Triad as a skill, they can go into any triad, including their special one. The special one doesn't magically make the Pherobooster better. It still gets 0 benefit.

    Be honest with me: have you ever actually taken that Guided HRL in N4?

    The problem isn't the profile is bad. The problem is that why the hell would you ever take it when you can get the Breaker Combi + SGL/GL profile for 5/3 points less? You can even avoid the 0.5 SWC cost by making the SGL your LT.
     
  13. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    Kriegel smg + phero.
    If it is 19 pts., sure i May take sometimes. But it is 25pts.
     
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  14. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    I play other factions mostly, just getting into Spiral and Tohaa now for a tourney.

    Guided is very, very useful in N4 if you can get Targeted on. It allows you to make a low-risk attack for a slightly higher number of orders. The counters to it are gone.

    Pheroware’s a great way to get that targeted on: you have better Burst and Bonuses combo than either Spotlight or FO. It’s a few extra points on a model already carrying extremely powerful endless-ammo no-LoF attacks, a marginal investment. And who can be in a Triad with whoever handles things with STR, which you’re already covering as a weakness of your

    You have the kit to no-LoF attack a trooper, come around a corner and mark the bory, then no,-LoF template anyone else near him. Ouch.

    All those FOs out there doing it with just a +0 bonus are jealous.
     
  15. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    I am aware of how good Guided is. You don't seem to be aware of just how hard you'd have to work to make it work in Spiral/Tohaa.

    Go ahead and open up your army app and check how many ways we have to put Targeted on someone. I'll go ahead and tell you: FOUR.

    Kriigel Pherobooster, Clipsos FO, Brawler Hacker, Wardriver Hacker.

    That's it. That is all the ways to apply Targeted in Spiral Corps, and it caps out at WIP 13. Is that really something worth spending 1 of your precious SWC on? Keep in mind: Spiral is an EXTREMELY SWC-hungry faction. Tri-Cores, Draal, Taagma Snipers, Impersonators, Igao, Helots... we have lots and lots and lots of ways to spend it.

    How many of those WIP 13 models do you want to take? How many do you HAVE to take to make the investment of the Chaksa worth it? Because at BS 11, no fireteam, no EVO hacker buffs, no Remote presence for easy heals... he's not going to do anything if he's not making Guided attacks.

    Guided is a cool trick, that factions like Nomads use to great effect. It's not a good trick in Spiral. And Pheroware is NOT a good trick to get Guided on something, because THEY HAVE TO FAIL THE BTS ROLL. Which, as previously stated, will deal a wound anyways, which makes the follow-up Guided shot something of a moot point.

    The best targets to hit with Guided are A: Fireteams, who will obliterate you with bonuses if you try to shoot back with a WIP 13 Burst 1 ARO, and B: Tags, who are completely immune with the exception of the Gorgos. Bonus points for all remotes being immune along with Karakuri, Betatroopers, Reex, Kauuri, etc.

    Contrast to FO, which simply has to succeed at the FtF roll and works on everything except Total Immunity. Even without the +3 Range band, the probability for the FO to actually target is higher due to the lack of a save.

    I have never, NEVER, NEVER EVER, seen the HRL Chaksa actually hit the field and manage to even make its points back. If you manage to make it work, by all means, please post the Battle Report here. But it'd be painful to try. And trust us; some of us have actually tried.
     
  16. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    Pherobooster is now at almost hmg price.
    Think it this way.
    Do you like to have hmg or pherobooster?
     
  17. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    I see your points. Not being able to mark STR with the weapon is a serious drawback. Without that, it would be so far better than FO as to be unbalanced.

    Pherobooster -has- a +3 rangeband, and a relatively large one (out to 24”).

    While FO may not require a save, winning a face to face roll with it in the first place is harder, and that has the negative consequence of your guy taking a hit when you lose it. Pherobooster might take an extra order if they save (on BTS, often a neglected stat). It is far lower-risk to use though.

    Sure, Guided may not be a great thing to build around in a Spiral list (I’m going to do it anyways, as I use Guided in YJ setups where people whine about how haaaaaaard it is to get a repeater forwards etc. as well).

    Targeted is still quite useful in 1-2 setups where your close assault guy (Kriigel, or a camo infiltrator FO, or whatever) gets that Targetted on a hard target that their weapons cannot crack (ARM 5 infantry for example). Then your tougher units hit the big guy.

    Pherobooster may not be great, but it is equivalent with FO for utility. You’re right, maybe Pherobooster should be cheaper. Or maybe the other Kriigel is a bit too cheap for having Eraser infinitely...

    What -is- unfortunate is that Eraser is so incredibly powerful that using a Pherobooster instead is unlikely. That’s more about Eraser being basically broken though (no-LoF ZoC attacks against anything ad infinitum sucks, thank god the Kriigel isn’t even more uber with a marker that works against everything it can’t just chuck Eraser at for zero risk).
     
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  18. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Building this list with the Guided HRL in it, I see that we get a Taagma hacker with holomask and Zero Pain, plus counterintelligence, in a Triad, for 18 points and 0.5 SWC.

    Yeah that’s amazing for a forward hacker. I’m looking forward to this.
     
  19. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    Taagma hacker can not spotlight unfortunetly.
     
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  20. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Double check that profile; he doesn’t have a Hacking Device.

    The only Hacking Program he has is Zero Pain. He can’t actually hack anything.
     
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