Thus far there is no indication that CB are moving to fill any of the slots we're losing with the passing of JSA from our list. This situation is unprecedented and I have to admit that if CB aren't being upfront about the future of Yu Jing in these early days, my gut is to assume it is because they aren't lifting a finger to fix the gaping holes left in the list. At the very least, I'm not assuming they will. As it stands, it appears we're keeping the ninja and losing the other 15 entries (with the stuff missing from the JSA list crossover likely being unit renames rather than units sticking around). If they have a plan and we're getting new units to fill the gaps, fantastic, but I'm not going to assume they will (and it is even less likely that it will be quick). But hey, maybe they can surprise me. All in all, this has been a pretty big hype-deadener for me. This may well be the first book from CB that I don't bother pre-ordering because none of the content seems that interesting. Hell, unless the background is good I may even just give it a hard pass. I'm really hoping the IA is in the next big release slot in either case because with a gutted vanilla and only a single sectorial I don't really have much to be happy about for my main faction right now. But I'll wait the week out and see if there are any silver linings offered at least, but the way this has rolled out hasn't exactly left me excited or enamoured.
We got miniatures. I don't care about miniatures (okay, I kinda do, but I'm not about to go buy resculpts when I like the old version just fine) I care about profiles. Options. Gameplay. Powergaming, if you will. Get that? EDIT: Also, For Baal Hammon's sake, Konstantinos just asked everyone to be polite three posts above your, yet you still managed to be rude and confrontative
I would really appreciate it f posters would not set up a perfect situation for a fight to be picked up.
I'm sure there are profiles to fill whats been lost to some degree coming, the question is how long will the wait be and how will it affect the next big campaign and other events. Wasnt that mostly updating the ISS though which before n3 was one of the worst sectorials as far as points efficiency on a lot of their units. This is like saying Ariadna players would have no right to be mad if they got caledonians taken out since they just got all that USARF gear.
Guys you should be happy. This isn't GW, these guys actually move the fluff forward and care about the universe they created. JSA is getting new models and new profiles. Yu Jing will get a new sectorial that will most probably fill in the blanks, the fluff is moving forward, there is sooo many new releases planned this year. Sure they're shacking things up, as is their right, but don't worry, it's not as if your losing profiles and won't get anything to replace them in time. Some of the whining here is not suitable for adults, who just got a ton of new toys ;)
Sauce for this massive amounts of gravy? A HSN3 overhaul comparable to SAA or CHA. A slight buff to some Mercs in ISS. Some re-sculpts for ancient models comparable to SAA or CHA. It was nice but it was nothing special. Should PanO lose Neoterra because MO got a Black Friar, tikbalangs got restatted and SAA got a new starter? Stop talking shit. @psychoticstorm feedback suggestion: Ikari Company in it's current incarnation should not have happened in a million years, and the space should have been a Yu Jing list that allowed core fireteams of Zhanshis, increased the AVA of Hac tao, guilang and Daofei and maybe gave some kind of Zuyong fireteam, whilst losing access to most of the Imperial Service Roster. I could have done it for them in an afternoon.
No Yu Jing list would fit in a NA2 book, Yu Jing are a major power not some second rate minor power. What is the problem with Ikari?
Please, expand and or quote sources on the following points: -Yu Jing getting a new sectorial and filling up the blanks. Particularily the second half. Particualarily your stating of the filling as fact. -We not having to worry and it not being as if we were losing profiles (and how are we not losing them) and it not being as if they wont be replaced in time (and your statement of the replacement as fact). -The need to use ad hominem and ageist arguments. Adults are about as bad as kids or worse. And whine much more. Please refrain from suggesting that I get a thicker skin, subdermal armor does just fine, but me having subdermal armor doesn't give you the right to test its resistance by shooting at me. -The action of getting new toys (especially how are we getting them) and the nature of those toys. Thanks for your collaboration. Mostly that they get a Wu Ming core which may just possibly be beter then the IS one through unit mixing*. And a Wu Ming Haris, which is something ISS doesn't have**. *I actually prefer the Zanying one, but the argument could and in fact is being made that the Smart Missile Launcher pairs quite well with the core. **Unless, of course, as part of this release Wu Ming are getting updated, which is something I have no data on the likelihood of so I will refrain from speculating about it.
Needing to put it in the book is an artificial constraint, DBS was working fine without the book. Adding AVA 5 Wu Ming with a special core to the good unit salad annoys me on many levels. Why Wu Ming of all troops in a faction that the first thing we learn about it is they commit massacres and target Yu Jing? Wu Ming have bombs in their faces to prevent them going rogue. If such a thing were possible to such an extent that AVA 5 in an enemy army is the result, why are the state using them in the first place? It's just more of what @Aldo and @Hecaton have been predicting, Yu Jing becoming a perpetually jobbing, incompetent heel faction. I can handle losing vast tracts of profiles and getting nothing in return, but being told the faction I have invested in "were retards the whole time, didn't you know" is not cool. When a faction's identity is reduced to Chinese incompetent bullies it seems a bit like derogatory racism.
The whole reason we're here is because we're enthusiastic about the "little dollies." Insulting people for being invested in the hobby isn't helpful.
Right @psychoticstorm , sorry, that was past the line. But, seriously, the last 12 months have been littered with upgrades and bonuses for Yu Jing (sure, in one Sectorial largely, but having another Sectorial as the focus of all that wouldn't change it) as well as a chunk of great releases in terms of models. There is no coherent argument possible that adding MORE stuff to Yu Jing ahead of time would somehow have magically stopped people from responding exactly as they are now. Without basically stopping production on any other faction for 12 months they would have been hard pressed to add any more to Yu Jing anyhow. There is some legitimacy to the complaint about JSA options for Vanilla only players going away. That's very fair (for that small minority). But claiming that the response has been caused by a lack of support for Yu Jing overall is just ludicrous.
People arnt complaining about a lack of support for yu jing but a lack of preparation for this whole mess that could have made for a much smoother transition. IF there had been only new profiles on pdf combined with the new proxy rules it would have turned out better.
I'll say again, the support was nothing special. And I know for a fact that I happily would trade every Japanese profile but the Ninja away in a heartbeat for AVA 2 Hac Tao and/or an opportunity to link the Zhanshis and Invincibles I've been waiting to use since they looked like this. In the time since I painted these guys, I collected and have nearly finished the entire Tohaa range and the entire JSA range, and not only have two of the troops been written out, the faction has actually shrunk by nearly a third. There is no equivalent experience for other factions. Ariadna and CA come close, but at least CA got a new Sectorial. No idea why they don't just publish a TAK list with Line Kazakh core just to reward the people who have been playing Pseudo TAK with self-imposed restrictions for years.
Well, that's one way of looking at things. But I'm sure we can agree on something: The May release had better be Invincible Army!
Understand the frustration with losing a big chunk of the Yu Jing faction. However, I think in the long-run the split will result in a more cohesive faction and give both YJ and JSA room to grow and develop independently and will open up more possibilities going forward. To me JSA and YJ already felt like two separate armies that were stuck together - there wasn’t much compatibility in terms of design or synergy between the two. This also sets up a new rivalry that is more compelling to me than YJ vs PanO. I’m looking forward to relentlessly crushing these traitorous dogs under the boots of the Invincible Army and grinding them into dust by literally dropping heavy infantry out of the sky!
Since we're giving feed back for this situation I thought I'd post mine on this release and how CB and parts of the community handled it. First off I'm not a YJ player but play a lot of JSA so this change really doesn't affect me that much as outside of a few, speculated, profile changes it's just a few new units that I may or may not use. Fluff wise I am enjoying the change. Despite the above I completely understand why people are upset about loosing figures and while there are lots of good counter points to JSA leaving as well I want to instead focus not on the why or what but instead the how of this was handled as deep down I feel that made this way worse for people then it needed to be in just about every way. No matter what CB did there would be upset\disappointed people as there are those that have been wanting JSA to be separate and, obviously, those that are upset over the loss of units, profiles use of figures. And lets keep in mind that not everyone has a huge budget to replace missing figures and while the proxy-ing changes are nice there are people that for aesthetic reasons don't like doing that down to people that upset that money they spent on something can no longer be used in the way it was originally intended. All these are valid as everyone has different reasons for playing a faction and specific units and who am I to dismiss their concerns? Considering CB has been stating since Gencon last year that this was going to be worse the Ko-dali they new there would be some re-opened wounds from this but instead of just tearing that bandage off quickly to get the pain over with they instead decided to slowly take if off and prodding the wound as much as possible for a "cool" reveal that would get people excited and buy stuff. And here we are after the reveal and even today we still don't know the full scope of what's gone (and I don't think will find out in the next BoW video either) so it could be weeks more of people not knowing which really shows a lack of caring about their customers and public images as now they've done this twice as well as a squating. It doesn't make CB look like they have the long term plan they always claim the do and instead a company that unstable and reactive -- not good signs for a new person looking to buy into Infinity. CB really should have just put out a video/article weeks ago stating that xyz was happening and given a full change to YJ. Then start the marketing for the JSA. While people would have been upset still it wouldn't have festered for 3 weeks with some really bad blood going on between warcors, mods of a certain facebook group and players that reflect really poorly on CB. Yes, it's a 3rd party group but since CB employees post there more then here, in the English forum at least, you can't help but feel that's more "official" the forums because of the attention it gets. I also don't believe that the warcor leak really messed up CB's plans as has been stated often as due to the Gencon statement, again that was something early this year would make a lot of people mad, at the first ENOUGH post everyone pretty much called it and there was a lot of talk here in this forums about it. The resentment for Warcors learning about this is also valid due to, again, the nature of this change. If all was happening was what new armies were coming out this year you wouldn't see this level of hate towards the Warcors (which I don't think is fair) but CB brought this upon themselves and even those that unofficially represent them by letting the uncertainty fester in the community which they had to know would happen as they stated several times they were aware of how mad people would be. And all that for some marketing off of JSA which they could have still done, new profiles, new units new sculpts yet not all press is good press as I really had to sit back and decide if I was going to buy the JSA pack and Enough and continue to play this game based off of how bad the community got and people were treated on Facebook (and there were many people being jerks on both sides) and I'm a pretty laid back person. CB could have put out a statement saying "we're dropping JSA completely from the game as we're moving away from Anime and cultural influences" and it wouldn't have upset me really if they were straight forward yet I never thought them releasing new stuff for the faction I play the most would get me wanting to not play the game anymore due to how we were treated.
I wonder if it is possible from a customer protection perspective to force a resell of your models - purpose of the product has changed after acquisition and without consent of the customer. @AdmiralJCJF while I can't keep a straight face calling inclusion of CSU anything but a fluff move, people do say nice things about Lunah, have you gone over the number of Yu Jing releases the past year that's no longer Yu Jing? Two instances of Shikami, for example. P.s. they can spend a lot of releases on a sectorial and still fuck up, you know. If the releases are mediocre with no great inclusions, a single well designed profile for a rival can make that rival far outpace Yu Jing. Just look at what Kaeltar did for Tohaa and what CSU and Lunag didn't do for ISS (ISS performance is not due to Lunah is my point, I'm not trying to dress them up as weak)
So far I have encountered as many players really excited about it as players massively disappointed by it, so about average response, I am afraid CB cannot do and should not do anything on comments on facebook in channels not out own. As I said earlier I understand the negative response and we are quite interested in the negative feedback Uprising was a monumental task and we need to see what the community thinks. Now DBS was not "working fine without the book" Druze were part of the book just released earlier for the community not at random nothing is released "just because" without some background material and splitting JSA without a really good story behind it to explain it is just silly, Wu Ming have subdermal tracking not bombs they can escape, just not many are willing to accept them when ISS is out looking for them. Personally I do not think that even if a brand new sectorial was presented with all the bells and whistles at the same time as uprising there would be any other reaction than the one we see now, but that is my opinion. Now Bostria in the Spanish section of the forum said he is not worried because he has seen the future of Yu Jing releases, so I guess you should expect quite a few things for Yu Jing.
@psychoticstorm all due respect, how many positive responses have you seen from Yu Jing players. I count myself as one of the rare few who are positive*, but I must say that Bostria not being worried about Yu Jing in the long run doesn't strike good confidence seeing how they fail to properly communicate this here and now. This is how customers are lost, marriages are broken and long standing blood feuds are started - by people not talking or informing each other of decisions when they have a relationship. Simply sitting down for 10 minutes and talking to BoW about what this means for Yu Jing (not JSA) would go a long way. Throw in a few bones about what's planned regarding a few units, doesn't have to be big reveals can mean you just clear out the speculation mess surrounding Daofei/Hac Tao and possibly reaffirming a rough estimate of number of new profiles (cause that sure as hell will start the rumour mill), and you've done everyone favours. * Though for the record I'm bummed about Ninjas staying instead of being replaced by something more Yu Jing.
It is day one of the BoW week (technically day two has not started yet) even if there is something planned for reveal it would be in the final days of the week not in the first day, I think some expectations about how things should be handled are a bit off. Yes, you can easily spot quite a few people positive about the change on the Yu Jing forum and I am not counting those that do not play Yu Jing.
