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Ectros in N4, and how to deal with enemy armour?

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by H4WTD4WG, Dec 31, 2020.

  1. H4WTD4WG

    H4WTD4WG New Member

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    Well, it seems to me N4 is shaping up to be the meta of big armour and HI. I was really hoping that the Ectros would come into it's own. TBH honest, I was really hoping for some Ariadna-esque non hackable, but that was probably a pipe dream. Anyways, among all the point plummets other HI got, I was hoping Ectros would too, and become much more viable. As we all know, it hasn't gotten cheaper, and I don't really what is has kept or been given to warrant the mammoth N4 price tag. Does anybody have any ideas or insight into why this is? Or maybe any ideas on how to make Ectros work?

    Furthermore, how are people cracking the tough shells of N4? Pheroware is there to isolate and immobilise W characteristic HI, but doesn't seem to provide the same volume of comms attacks that hacking provides. Furthermore, how will we be dealing with STR characteristic models?
     
  2. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Sukeul missile launcher as always, maybe cc triad or k1 would be my guesses didnt get to play N4 so far so take my advice with a grain of salt
     
  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    On the Ectros, I've had a little luck with using the NCO profile alongside Breaker Lt Neema for order spam, but while it felt solid I don't think it's outstanding, just kinda good.

    For handling ARM, the Sukeul K1 is obviously one of the premier Jotum killers in the game, but more generally Tohaa need to be considered in light of having the best eclipse smoke in the game. We almost always have a maneuver option around hard pieces, and often a CC solution, for everything up to and including the heaviest ARM in the game.
     
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  4. Kazgarom

    Kazgarom Member

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    The Ectros has one main advantage over other Tohaa units and that is NCO. So you can use your LT order when your LT is inside of a linkteam. This often means 1-2 extra orders (should be 2 as you would need to build around the Ectros). This advantage is priced heavily. He is expensive and his delta is lower compared to other units.
    With delta I mean the difference between the target value of attacker and defender. This value should be positive for the attacker or a single lucky roll who isn't a crit can outroll all 4-5 rolls you are doing.
    Also the Ectros has no stealth and is hackable. This means, while approaching the right position he can be hacked and he can't do much about it, resulting in uncontested hacking attempts of the enemy if you make a mistake.
    Sukeul and Draal both get better delta in most cases cause of their mimetism and both got stealth which also Neema if you really want a HI. As all 3 units normally have non stealth units in a triad the hacker has to target one of those when you move into his zone of control and you can harmlessly announce shooting breaking your stealth without fear of getting hacked (neither spotlight nor any other hacking program).
    If you really want that 1 extra order or just love the Ectros go for it. Otherwise I would recommend using a different unit for the offensive part.

    You have multiple options attacking enemies with high arm and/or bts. Strategies depend what is fielded by the enemy.

    Shootout: Sukeul HMG, Sukeul K1 or Draal AP Marksman/Submachine Gun
    HMG has higher bursts and therefore an increased chance of winning the f2f roll, also got longer ranges so you might need to use less eclipse smoke or mirrorball to get into position. K1 will start doing same damage as soon as the enemy has 2 arm, AP marksman as soon as the enemy has 4 arm (consider that they still have less burst and mathematically the chance to do damage might change cause of that). The best delta and therefore success getting more hits on the enemy has the draal. For treshholds when to use witch unit try an infinity calculator. But keep in mind that you often don't want to use one unit only against one target that might be there but is effective in most scenarios.
    Underrunning the marksmanship buffed tr (especially from CA) and than use one of those 3 gives quite a high chance to knock it unconscious.

    Order starving: Just ignore tough units of the enemy, use mirrorball and eclipse to get in the deployment zone of the enemy and bring havoc on the cheerleaders. A Cutter with 2-3 orders is still tough but way less dangerous than when it has 6+ orders.

    Melee: Most triads already got a Makaul inside so you have the chance to get into CC with many enemies. Even if he cant kill the unit he can bind it so the enemy must use precious orders to kill the Makaul in melee before he can use the strong unit again. The Igao is even stronger in that but also is another unit most lists don't have standardised inside. I want to point out, that many strong units like Achilles and Guijia have strong melee capabilities and are way less prone to fall against that strategy. If you don't threaten the unit to be oneshotted by a melee engagement of multiple units the enemy might target the passive units of yours and kill them uncontested!

    Coordinated Orders: A unit in ARO can only react against one enemy if you use 3-4 units to attack it 2-3 attacks will be uncontested rolls. Also weapons with low burst value don't have a disadvantage as they lose less compared to high burst weapons like an HMG.
    A Sakiel with VCR and EM/Grenades and a Gao Rael with CR and Adhesive Launcher posses with their 2nd weapons a high threat towards the target as IMM-A and IMM-B states are threatened (if it's a HI, TAG, etc). If both states get through the target can't do any action until an engineer breaks those states as both allow only dodge or reset actions and both together would negate all possibilities.

    Flanking: Get in the back side of a unit. Way weaker than in N3 as you get only 1 time the free shot. You would need 2-3 units to cycle around the enemy to get most of it and with a max of 15 orders this is most often to cost inefficient to do.

    Force the enemy to make tough choices as to dodge or to reset as neither option leaves his unit in a good spot
    There are other tricks like Smoketrick to increase your chance to winning F2F rolls. But as I already wrote a wall of text I leave them out.



    That said, I recommend playing units you enjoy playing. If it's that big mean TAG play it. If you love the Ectros, use it. Infinity is a game of rolling dice in the end and a Kamael can kill a Myrmidon Officer in melee in their ARO.
     
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  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Before I forget, I also rate the Gorgos as a possible ARM-cracker. It needs eclipse support to get in close but it can range in under 16" against enemy HMG TAGs and has a chaksa buddy throwing E/M grenades. You really can't ask for a nastier set of dice to roll against heavy enemy ARM.
     
  6. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    Kosuil embedded in a Triad with a Panzerfaust allows for both tubes to be emptied into a target. Can be reloaded too.

    Libertos with SMG is an annoying AT speed bump.

    Longarms with Portable Auto in its Haris.

    Le Muet is a little on the pricy side.

    Igao with Boarding Shotgun or Krakots are also good hurdles.

    Aelis has a K1 Combi. Aida has an SMG with +1B.

    Just depends on the armour your dealing with and what is more comfortable to use for your playstyle. Some people enjoying being up close whether it's with a CC weapon or Boarding Shotgun loading AP slugs. There's definitely some nice ranged options that allow you to reach out and touch someone.
     
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  7. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Just a real quick note but Longarms can't Haris in Tohaa; only in Spiral.
     
  8. Barsik

    Barsik Well-Known Member

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    Why so?
     
  9. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    A Fireteam Haris can only be formed in a Sectorial Army List, Tohaa is a vanilla army. Triad does not have the same restriction.
     
  10. Barsik

    Barsik Well-Known Member

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    Yeap
     
  11. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Just to throw my 2 cents in, people be sleeping on the K1 Sniper Sukeul in a defensive/cheerleader core.

    BS 13, Mimetism, 2 wounds and gives 0 cares about your ARM value at 30 points. The cheapest Sukeul profile, actually. And she can still gunfight competently at close range thanks to the dual breaker pistols.

    Competes heavily with the Gao Rael (especially as he brings MSV2), but with the better BS, superior damage output, mimetism, better close range firepower AND 3 points cheaper there's a definite argument there.
     
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  12. Barsik

    Barsik Well-Known Member

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    Do not forget she has stealth and as you mentioned above breaker pistols(+1B) in tread will be 4B makes her really naughty gal.
    For me she outshines GAO-Rael,I even gave her nickname Maarquise
     
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  13. melkiach

    melkiach PheroBoosted

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    Definetly Maarquise need a miniature, when new Sukeul sculpts to buy?? :D
     
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  14. Barsik

    Barsik Well-Known Member

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    Today I bought 2 Sukeuls gonna try kitbashing
     
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  15. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    That's fair. Didn't realize that. Weird that they have the Fireteam:Haris ability in Vanilla though. Must be a typo.
     
  16. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    They have the skill, but forming a Haris requires the skill and permission from the Sectorial chart.

    If you look at Samaritans, Orcs, etc they also have Haris in vanilla as the skill is part of their profile, it just has no effect in Vanilla. It could also be future proofing if future Fireteam rules allow Vanilla Haris in some form.
     
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  17. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    Didn't Evo lose the ability to form duos as well? I'm not sure the intentions of having the skill in the profile if it can't be used. Kind of adds to the confusion if you ask me.
     
  18. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    It did, but we also know that they're planning to revisit the Fireteam rules as their next big update to N4, so might be leaving the door open for now.
     
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