Hey CB I know you’ll never read it or play your own game but anyway. Why to have useless rules/skills/armies in N4? Shock ammo would be good against NWI units but you gave generously shock immunity or total immunity almost everyone NWI unit so it useless rule now??? As mentioned above almost every NWI unit has immunity to shock ammo so why to have NWI and just not simple 2 wounds??? Tohaa has 2 wounds but after 1st wounds they loose everything:mimetism,ARM,BTS everything.So why they cost so much???
In the next update all models will receive a new rule , Immunity Barsik. It makes every model in the game immune to any action you try to take against them. We are sorry for your pain.
I agree that shock ammo, NWI, and shock immunity are poorly distributed among units. I don't think you'll find a lot of people arguing that the current arrangement is good.
I just wish they'd give them 2W. The difference between NWI-SI and 2W is significant, but not worth the extra complexity it causes nor the price changes on units with it, and seems to be used more for points optimisation and power creep where a simple change to the pricing formula would have sufficed.
Instead of giving everything and its mother Immunity (Shock) they should have taken shock off everything except for MULTI weapons and people with BS Attack (Shock).
Shock chould have been Continuous Damage vs stuff without Shock Immunity, that way you'd have more leeway to actually create things that aren't Shock immune instead of making a NWI/Dogged as Skill completely useless when facing Shock without immunity. MSVs vs Mimetism at least have White Noise in the mix to have up and downsides. N3 and N4 Shock and NWI being completely binary is terrible design that's impossible to balance properly on both ends as long as you have armies that want to run a lot of either. But eh, they fixed it by making it quite easy to never run a striker that actually cares about Shock so it's a nonfactor atm.
If you ask me, shock would not be missed by the game. If this rule is not existent, they could save a lot of words on a lot of units. Maybe remove it only from the BS weapons. No SI necessary and NWI/Dogged have only one bane and that is a shock-ccw
I'm not going to bother doing the numbers, but lots of things have dogged/NWI and don't have shock immune. Lots of things do. Some things have shock ammo, but some don't. While I can agree that having NWI + Shock immune and NWI is not really elegant rules design. We could dissect many aspects of the game with that fine a tooth comb. Whether there is "too much" or "too little" is going to be fairly subjective. I think ultimately CB took the route of N3 was very good. Lets not change too many things at once just in case we break the aspects that made it very good.
Aight, well if you're explicitly not going to do the numbers, just don't bring it up. It means "Is it worth relying on the durability of this NWI trooper" is never a choice you have to make. It's always worth it. Sure, but the change towards this and not how I mentioned was wrongheaded, I think.
Which is like, your opinion man. I'd say claiming there is too much shock puts the burden of proof on you. I think it's probably OK by in large.
One way of addressing this issue would be removing shock from SMGs. Weren't those be one of the main controversies in N3 anyway? Strip them of their special ammo types and distribute shock and/or AP among select profiles, just like with other weapons.
Remove shock or AP. Or reduce damage would all be good options.. But I'm also happy to see how they go in N4 before really baying for changes based on n3 knowledge.
I did the numbers counting by hand. For things that are shared between factions I counted them once and under their "parent" faction's banner, mostly characters in this regard. The hackable 2W or Fake HI stuff like Evaders/Ratniks etc I didn't count. In the end I wound up with an even 80 units that are naturally extra vulnerable to shock, carrying N:WI or Dogged, and 39 of those units carried some kind of Immunity protecting them from shock ammo. As far as factions for high proportions of shock immune shit, Ariadna, Haqqislam, and Aleph were the three biggest offenders. Together that totaled 26 units and they account for 67% of the 39 units that the rest of the factions share between them. In terms of raw factional "I don't give a fuck about Shock ammo" O-12 have a metric fuckload of shock immunity. Out of 30 unit entries, which includes all their mercs and cross factional stuff as well, 22 units carry the Immunity skill, and that includes alot of actual one wound stuff like Kappa and Epsilons. If your meta has a large proportion of O-12 you could well be forgiven for thinking Shock ammo is actually worthless given how many of their units don't give a fuck about it.
While the major source of shock has been removed (Assisted Fire), the number of Shock Marksman Rifles have increased significantly. It's slightly worrying how AP and AP Immune is starting to follow the same patterns as Shock did during N3 - AP HMG are no longer the unique feature of Ariadna, more and more units are getting both general AP versions of weapons and specifically AP HMG is getting more common. In and of itself that's not bad, AP Immunity isn't common and mostly a Combined/Morat thing, and the current balance of ARM means there's now a choice between taking a combi and a Multi rifle unit - there's even a few more premium units where I've been a bit annoyed that they still run around with plain combis. I just hope AP Immunity remains really rare. Shock, though... I'm not sure SMG are the source of the problem any more, there's been some subtle changes with N4 to a bunch of profiles where the SMG makes more sense now, not least that the targets are no longer typically ultra-light units, but more commonly targets that can soak a salvo and dish hurt back. Meanwhile while Shock has been over-all reduced, I think, the number of Shock Immune have shot through the roof and people have taken to complaining when their 1 ARM Warbands with NWI don't get Shock Immunity. Not a good sign that... In either case, I think that the reason why they feel the need to add Shock Immunity to most NWI units is still that Shock ammo is probably too common.
