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Ghazi Muttawi'ah

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by QueensGambit, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Just ran the one-Mutt list in Power Pack and it felt just about right. The Mutt did nothing in turn one (didn't help that I forgot her impetuous order). Turn two, she threw smoke for the Asawira haris so that it could get into Spitfire range of an ARO piece. Turn three, she discovered and then executed a skirmisher with her BSG. Not bad for 9 points and effectively zero orders. Plus if she'd failed the discover, she would have had a second chance with an intuitive attack from the e/marat.

    A second e/marat mutt wouldn't have added much. Could have been deployed on the other side of the table, but wouldn't have had much to do there. (Although, a jammer mutt would have been nice to protect the squishy fireteam on that side).

    Didn't much feel the loss of a Daylami - still had three of them, and two of them didn't even reveal all game.

    Off-topic: Asawiras are brutal.
     
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  2. HotFreshTofu

    HotFreshTofu Well-Known Member

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    perhaps, but B3 means higher chance of crit, and halves his bts.

    Maybe the exp has a higher chance of killing him in 1 order, but b3 breaker has a higher chance of killing him overall (by spending another order).

    I didnt run the numbers but I killed achilles in 2 orders of CC a few weeks ago using the breaker pistols.

    I think against achilles the main thing is to not let him crit you, so id roll the b3 every time.
     
  3. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    The exact numbers for the breaker pistol are Z is 21% to wound, 5% to wound twice, 1% to wound thrice. Achilles is 56% to wound, 55% to wound twice.

    With the exp CC, she is 21%-11%-4%, he is 65%-63%.

    So basically, attacking Achilles with Zuleyka is a terrible idea no matter what weapon you use. You got incredibly lucky to win the fight.
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Have you corrected for N3 crits? It doesn't change the conclusion, but does increase the "No player succeed" percent slightly and increases the "Achilles (Hoplite Armour) inflicts two or more wounds" percent slightly, denying Dogged.
    I'm getting 19% for Zulyeka (Breaker Pistol) when I compensate for her roughly 8% critical win rate and I'm getting roughly 53% for Achilles when I compensate for his 34% critical win rate.
     
  5. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    My numbers are based on my N4 dice calculator, yes.

    Edit: using the non-hoplite Achilles, maybe that's the difference.
     
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  6. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    I was originally thinking of Achilles V1 where the Breaker pistols and EXP CCW would be equal ARM roll success values.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Huh. Shouldn't make a difference. Same BTS on v1 and v2. Granted, I'm using backwards calculations on the N3 calculator (and I'd forgotten to increase Achilles' PH to 18 which would mean his crit-win decrease is closer to 2.5% while bumping up his non-crit-win even further)
    It's interesting your calculator is getting so similar results to the N3 version of Achilles (with N4 martial arts, now that I've bumped up Achilles' PH)
     
  8. HotFreshTofu

    HotFreshTofu Well-Known Member

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    Now that I actually go back and look at the stats, maybe I didn't remember correctly.

    Zuleyka should be on 19s or something making it much harder to crit.


    Maybe I actually just shot the pistols at him and he nanopulsed me? I feel like I misremembered to CC, apologies.

    @colbrook @QueensGambit you guys are probably correct, I thought Z had MA or something. I believe I just caused 2 wounds by shooting and went dogged, then 1 more order to finish him at range. Probably.
     
  9. haiku

    haiku New Member

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    I would like to add my limited experience in N4 to the thread.
    I usually play vanilla Haqq with some probes in HB and Ramah (which is hard to run but brutally fun).
    Ghazi with e/marat and the guy with the chain rifle execute the same job Kums do so I don't even consider them.
    In my opinion the only profiles worth are the jammer ones. Some post upward someone asked what distinguishes ghazi from Daylami and Kum.
    Ghazi are human mines, as they used to be. Meanwhile Daylami are cheap 360 defensive (or offensive using a coordinated order) turret and Kum strike the enemy putting a formidable pression (shotgun is my favorite), ghazi are capable to disable every attacker (well, not veterans) with a wip roll.
    The opponent knows this and he usually spends a cascade of orders to shun and evade ghazi's zoc. Of course this trick works when you are able to deploy or move ghazi in some corner or on roof's top so he/she couldn't be spotted.
    With this role in mind I commonly go through the cheapest 6 point jammer, because for smoke I still have Kums or/and Zuleyka.
    Jammer ghazi stopped an IA link and an Asura in killing spree.
    The bsg option came in my list just once but I don't feel the need in vanilla, because the most effective Kums (in the assault role) but probably in HB it would be a better choice.

    As you mentioned Zuleyka I want to ask what you think about the other twin, Zamira. Does she worth? Or she's hopelessly outshone by the redhead sister?

    About the comment hinging around the Asawira.. She's brutal but she's absolutely gorgeous with the nasmat. With B2 and +1 damn in cc the doctor choice is one of my favorite.
     
  10. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Hello guys,

    I'am more a Hassasin player than a Vainilla one, still, I think I have the same issues with the "new Ghazi" as you all. I have to be honest, at first glance of this new edition and the changes in Jammer and equipement to the Ghazi I was really really disapointed, but now I have "daylamis" so "no more complains". Still, I use to play a group fulll regular orders and other with all irregular ones. Daylamis are right now the "best ARO" defense we can have in hassasin and maybe too in vainilla, but Ghazi are yet useful. In vainilla or hassasin, we have a lot of smoke options, so we don't need the ghazis for that. In this edition E/M is terrible for the enemy because it does roll two dices in order to avoid the effects and reduces PB to half. To me this is worthy if I want to stop some "heavy pieces". Yes, Daylamis are good, but they need to be really close in order to put that "free template" or really far far away to being something serious with the Panzerfaust, and sometimes they can't be in both places at the same time.

    Of course I don't play anymore four Ghazi, but I put at least one in one of my list with the "e/marat, chain" version, because is the best choice I have found right now to stop things like "andromeda". So, I reserve the little bastard as my last figure and I place in front of Andromeda (or whatever any other piece the enemy wants to throw against me) and wait to see how he struggles to deal with it. Most of the times is a big problem because nobody wants to be isolated (yes, you can now get out of the isolated state with a reset, but not in the same turn you gain the state. Not at least you have acces to some irregulars orders like "tactical awareness"). If I have the points I get the Ghazi with BSG+E/Marat. Even I have tried list with 3 daymalis+2 ghazi, but then we lose the option to coordinate 4 panzerfaust.

    So, to make it short, Ghazis have still some use in N4, but probably not 4 in our list anymore, and not the jammers ones :)
     
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