Iss in n4, lists and fireteams

I haven't been able to get many games in during the pandemic, but N4 has opened up ISS to some really nice new fireteam options.
First on my list will probably be a Crane Wildcard in a Kuang Shi + CG Core. It's such a cheap core with a competent point man, that even brings a nice substitute Kuang Shi to keep the team alive, once the first member kicks the bucket. Just make sure you keep your CG safe, so you can reform the link.


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6 4
CRANE AGENT (Triangulated Fire, Sensor, X Visor) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 46)
CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)

KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
0.5 SWC | 79 Points
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Other interesting new fireteams would be the Deva + Dakini Haris and the mixed Wu Ming + Zhanying Core, where you can now have multiple Zhanying, adding even more utility to an already capable fireteam.

 

I think @Zewrath's criticisms are still mostly on point

Their fireteams are mostly meh with weak options and a lack of toolbox wildcard units, their ARO game is also fairly weak. They got bashed by a metagame shift with order spam being taken away (IA and Vanilla both do better at order spam now than ISS, which is kinda fucked up), and their HI are probably the most vulnerable to hacking in the faction with a very weak counter hacking presence and lack of engineer support and/or marker states for their HI.

The issue I run into with a Kuang Shi link is, well, it'd would've been really good in early to mid N3 but it's really just fuckin' mediocre these days. Compare your core link to what both the other sectorials can make:


5 1
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49)

1.5 SWC | 95 Points

It's almost identical points per order cost and allows you to go over ISS's 15 order limit, it has a much more dangerous gunner. Sure you lose out on smoke and a sensor, but it gives you a much more important tinbot to stop the HI from being turned into a brick, and it also has specialist in the link that actually has very good odds of being able to bring him back to life.

 

This is something I could see myself trying out in some scenarios that don't require midfield and specialist. IA and WB can't play with as many attack vectors in 1 team. We have tinbot hacker, with possible madtrap to force terrible Aro choices. Speculative grandes to clear annoying repeaters, spec EM nades for pure evil.

Edit. Can't import army code on phone for some reason...
I guess you Gous have to check it manually :|

gMoQaW1wZXJpYWwtc2VydmljZQpJJ2xsIGRvIGl0gSwCAQoBfQEHAAJ9AQMAA4CBAQQABICBAQIABYCBAQMABoCSAgEAB4CSAQEACICSAQEACYCSAQEACoCSAQEAAgcBgLkBAQACgMABAQADgMABAQAEbQEJAAVtAQoABoC3AQQABzIBAQA=

 

I'll do it
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GROUP 1 10 4
ZHÀNYING (Sensor, Triangulated Fire, Minelayer) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Madtraps / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 23)
ZHÀNYING (Hacker, Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 25)
WÚ MÍNG Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37)
WÚ MÍNG MULTI Rifle, Grenade Launcher, E/M Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 35)
WÚ MÍNG Boarding Shotgun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)

GROUP 2 4 1
SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
DEVA (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 33)
DEVA (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
DAKINI Tacbot MULTI Sniper Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 20)
WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

5 SWC | 300 Points

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It's not quite identical with +1 SWC, +16 points and no replacement model to reform the link included. It also lacks utility and versatility without smoke, sensor and DTWs all over the place. I agree it's probably much stronger in a straight up FTF, but that's just the Shang Ji being a beast. They are basically two entirely different takes on a fireteam, so the comparison is a bit difficult to make.

I'm probably going to try it with a Deva + Dakini Haris to cover long range engagements and Kanren to clean forward hackers and repeaters.

It also leaves plenty of room for that important Sophotect to keep things intact, including immobilized HI.

ISS seems to have transitioned from the standard crowbar approach of 8 Kuang Shi + Su Jian to something that can be a much more toolbox of a sectorial, with utility profiles like Cranes and Xi Zhuang becoming wildcards and getting a fantastic long range Haris in the Deva/Dakini link.

It may be weaker overall compared to what other factions can bring, but the prospect of fielding it excites me a lot more than 4 Zahnshi + 1 Shang Ji ever could.

 

I really like ISS fluff and stylewise. Elite Agents and their goons on their way to kick in some doors and wreck face... Whats not to love?

What would help ISS a lot in listbuilding might be another reliable source of smoke, I am looking at you ninja!
Additional I think it's weird how pheasants and bao can just link with eachother... Bao should be linkable with celestials. Pheasants would be nice to be wildcard, wildcard red fury with TA seems good.
I would love for the hsien to be wildcard but I can understand why he isn't. But then why can the Aquila guard go into a corelink in neoterra?
Maybe some TA profiles in wu ming or more arm and BTS or frenzy to make them cheaper?
An additional skirmisher so kanren can disguise themselves as something different than a kanren?

But will definitely play iss once in a while!

 

I realized a thing in N3 and perhaps stilll Holds True in N4.

ISS works Really well, when the mission or scenario you're going to play Features an Exclusion Zone.

It allows you to focus on DZ Defense and then you can use the Su Jian (or two) to maneuver, however it is quite a gamble, and perhaps some of the other YJ sectorials or Vanilla does it better.

 

My question to you is, what do you consider to be offensive or defensive? Some would say Dakini are defensive, I however think they can be both offensive and defensive.

 

My Kuang Shi cores usually just have Xi wildcarded into them, but also a couple spares to slot into the link as members start exploding. My first turn is almost always spent clearing deployables with a Kanren, coordinating ABH Akrylats against AROs with either a Hsien or Lunah through smoke, then running the Kuang Shi link up the field to apply pressure. My personal favourite is just throwing my Kuangs at my opponents and wearing them down through sheer attrition. Keep the link together with Xi's No2, then refill with free roaming Kuangs when I lose the Burst bonus. I might even take a shotgun if I've got extra points, which I often do. It completely lacks any subtlety, but that's ISS.

My main thing with ISS is, after getting my ABH, Kuang Shi, and Deva haris built, I'm running out of slots!

 

So to bring up the hacking bugbear again, finally we have a working dice calculator and I can back my gut feelings up with actual statistics.

A big challenge facing Yu Jing in general is dealing with uberhackers. When I say uberhacker I don't necessarily mean a tricked out hacker like Mary Problems. What I'm talking about specifically is a hacker that is BTS6+ hiding behind a firewall and presents both an aggravating ARO presence as well as potentially an existential threat of a guided weapon vector.

These are not as uncommon as you think and are not limited to traditional top end hacking factions. Pan-O has Knights and other MI/LI that fit this criteria, as well as Yu Jing packing various BTS6 hackers that can jump into tinbot links. This week I played into NCA using a Bolt hacker to fight through REM repeaters to spotlight for a Clipper, and both my regular Starmada opponents almost always have a BTS6 Psi-cop shielded by Hector's tinbot or a BTS6 Cyberghost hiding in a repeater network (or often both).

I see hackers alot and they are a fucking pain in my ass.

Now ISS's issues are compounded further than normal. Their tinbots are expensive and considerably less efficient and more difficult to get into links than their sister sectorials, not having access to tinbots with Tactical Awareness or any wildcard tinbots.

The Ninja and Kanren were once a potential tool to help solve this problem. They are utterly fucking shit at their job now. People who think basic unlinked KHDs are viable solutions have not played into the N4 infowar game enough at all.

That fucking WIP12 Bolt hacker I mentioned? About as low down on the totem pole as you can go in terms of optimised hackers? An unaided WIP13 KHD trying to breach their repeater network to engage in a 1v1, ignoring any other hacker that might also be firing back AROs, is struggling at 31.5% chance of success vs 15.6% of getting oblivioned by his target in return. Wanna step it up one tier and fight an average WIP13 target like a Psi-cop? You're dropping below 30%, it's awful. This is an absolute bastard of a thing for ISS to deal with who are more reliant than both other sectorials and Vanilla on HI/REMs to do their heavy lifting with no decent LI/MI links to speak of or critical mass of camo skirmishers in Vanilla's case.

I haven't figured out all the answers yet for dealing with the hacking game but so far I'm pretty certain that our sectorials are going to live and die by our tinbots and engineer options. ISS's difficulty in obtaining Tinbots and lack of engineers really hurts them.

 

Yeah, it's something ISS will have to build against. Walking a single KHD into a repeater can't be the solution anymore.

Ninja and Kanren are probably still good tools, but their use case has shifted from KHD in marker state to repeater killer in marker state.
They have the ability to traverse said repeater net untouched and clean up repeaters on their way.

As for our infowar game, it's not looking stellar, but at least we have some good resilience baked into our key pieces.


3
HSIEN (Lieutenant) MULTI Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (+1 | 53)
CRANE AGENT (Hacker, Hacking Device, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0.5 | 46)
ZHÀNYING (Hacker, Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 25)
1 SWC | 124 Points


5
WÚ MÍNG Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37)
WÚ MÍNG MULTI Rifle, Grenade Launcher, E/M Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 35)
WÚ MÍNG Boarding Shotgun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
CRANE AGENT (Hacker, Hacking Device, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0.5 | 46)
ZHÀNYING (Hacker, Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 25)
2.5 SWC | 174 Points
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I'd imagine you could try something like the above, backed up by a Sophotect to fix any mishaps. As you mentioned, we're lacking the inherent order economy of IA and Shang-Jisus from WB though, which does hurt. Firewall [-6] is still a big boon in a hacking heavy edition, so we're not completely outmatched.

 

The Hsien is a great profile, the problem is his fireteam options are badly limited, outdated and trash tier. The Wu Ming link is basically a shittier link you could build with IA, missing the bonus orders and linkable engineers and paramedics.



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5 2
SHÀNG JÍ (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41)
ZÚYǑNG (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / CC Weapon, Breaker Pistol(+1B). (0 | 28)
ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / CC Weapon, Breaker Pistol(+1B). (0 | 31)
ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Machine Gun / CC Weapon, Breaker Pistol(+1B). (1.5 | 37)
CHIEF JEONG K1 Combi Rifle, AP Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29)

2 SWC | 166 Points

Open in Infinity Army

More orders, better specialists, equipment, guns, and cheaper. It also has the capacity with Jeong's mines to force opponents to pick between either dodging the mine or Reset vs the hacking attack, and Jeong also brings a repeater so every hacker in the army can help defend the link not just the linked hackers themselves.

 

Yup, there's no arguing that. The only redeeming quality the Wu Ming bring is the E/M GL ... and style of course.

 

They do but spec fire on grenade launchers is kinda... it's nowhere near as good as it was in N3. Missing that +3 band really hurts it and targeted doesn't help it nearly as much anymore. I don't really think it's a great selling point anymore.

 

To put the Grenade launcher in perspective, you average 1 linked Fusilier kill per 4-5 shots taken (22.9% chance). That's pretty fuckin terrible. You need your opponent to be a total fucking potato and let you splash 3-4 models per shot to really get any serious value out of it.

The +3 in the edition change is knocking about 8-9% off the odds.

It's still got a niche in assassinating civvie targets, so it's not all bad. But it's just that, very niche.

 

Even in that case the Su Jian or Ninja walking up and shooting it is probably faster and almost as safe. I've stopped bothering to bring the GL on my NCA Squalo altogether, having a coin flip at best is dreadful considering the options available to most other factions for assassinations and not worth the points investment anymore. ISS seems to be decent to good against non-hacking factions though, just like NCA. As sad as it is to say though, considering balance in the past, I don't think I'd be comfortable taking either to a serious tournament since they both lose any power that would make them worth it if the enemy can outhack them.

The Dakinis-in-Deva Haris definitely seems like a fun offensive team for its size, and a Hsien HMG backed up with Smoke is still a strong option, but I've not yet been happy enough with anything I've been able to build in Army to spend time testing the faction myself.

 

With the loss of a positive range band on our only smoke tosser though, our smoke access has become unreliable and horribly inefficient. When most factions are getting smoke down with 16+ with cheap impetuous orders, ISS has to spring for a full core spending regular orders just for the privilege of getting it on 14.
And it's not like ISS' MSV access is particularly exclusive or notably potent anymore, either.

Having previously taken ISS to a tournament in N4, I absolutely won't be touching them again until they're reworked. You have to invest so much and work so hard just to be mediocre at things that other factions get for free, and then you lose out on so much else in the process.

ISS needs some real polishing before they start playing like an N4 army. (#VapeCrane2021)

 

Quote'd for truth!