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N4 Armata 2; are they worth taking?

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by dhellfox, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    upload_2020-11-29_15-37-49.png
    now that N4 has been out been out for a while (and wave 2 has been released), has anyone fielded these loadouts?

    how practical have they been?

    are they viable choices for TAK and vanilla?

    edit 24 hours later: wow no one responded, i guess they are so bad no one used them :P
     
    #1 dhellfox, Nov 29, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  2. Kreslack

    Kreslack Unknown Ranger lead the way!

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    Took a while to come up with some answers here. I had to double check a few rules.

    I haven't had a chance to take the Ratnik out myself. Haven't really played TAK since N4 hit. Been familiarizing myself with Kosmoflot, the USAriadna changes and O-12.

    Still I have some thoughts based on N3 performances and N4 changes.

    Lets look at overall first. The Armor changes have been very good to the Ratnik. ARM 6 even if only one wound of it is hard to shift in cover and with that big score even a crit has pretty decent odds of being shrugged off.
    The dodge change is thematically fitting on both it and the Blackjack. Though it hurts alot. Both really won't be dodging anything anymore. PHYS 9 is pretty abysmal. Template weapons are now a big weakness that you need to be aware of. Especially AP and EM mines.
    I feel very strongly that if they want to penalize the Ratnik (and Blackjack) like TAGs, they really should have just reclassified them as TAGs, (and bumped them to S6 since they are both easily that size anyway.) And let them also reap the benefits of at least Tac Aware, but the additional penalty of no prone to go with their TAG like dodging skills. Though do either of them even really look like they could get up again if they went prone. And if would give both of those factions options in TAG missions.
    They also both should have been made structure instead of wounds. (Which would also fit with a TAG overhaul) it would be a little harder to pick them up but it would also give you an option other than Muls to repair structure for classifieds.
    Last point overall is the SWC change from 2 to 1.5 is a huge help. Makes taking two at least a more feasable option.

    Now to the individual profiles.

    HRL (+1 burst), Heavy Shotgun

    Though he did go up 3 points, the burst bonus on the HRL is wonderful. He can function much more reliably at long range. And if he should have to engage a defensive link team he's at least throwing more dice than them.
    The changes to shotguns is a nice buff for him too. In N3 I've been in a few situations where I really was envious of the Blackjack chest mines for close range defense. Now getting close to him is quite dangerous a damage 15 template is nothing to sneeze at. And behind cover offensively or defensively he can really bully lighter units with it.


    AP Spitfire (+1 burst), Panzerfaust (+1 burst), Flammenspeer (+1 burst)

    Holy hell did this guy get some nice upgrades. The +1 DAM from the molotok to AP spitfire change was a huge upgrade. Before I found the dual Molotoks a little weak facing medium troops. That little damage bump goes a long way. And the burst 5 gives him some vicious teeth in the active turn at most combat ranges.
    His disposable weapons aslo got a huge upgrade. Though before with his twin Panzerfausts he could fire either twice with two burst or four times at one. Now with the changes to disposable weapons and built in burst bonus. He can still fire it twice at two burst but also has a Flammenspeer that can do the same thing. So though he lost the "potential" to fire four times with the Panzerfaust he kept the exact same active turn burst with but also has a second option. Giving him two burst 2 shots with both AP+Explosive and Fire templates at ranges past the range of his Spitfires. Thats some excellent versatility. Also he got 4 points cheaper just to add some icing to that angry gun festooned cake.

    Quick final bit I thought I'd bring up. His duo options. Two of them can make a pretty solid team. One covers the long range and CQC and the other more general combat ranges. And you still have 203 points to fill out the rest.
    Personally I think Colonel Voronin is the best team up partner for duos. He provides sensor while moving up the field and easily sweeping up single and or multiple camo markers alike But more importantly (especially for the AP spitfire Ratnik) he provides amazing close range defense. The changes to Guard make Voronin super dangerous in his ZoC. And shore up the Ratniks biggest weakness.

    Hope that helps. I hope to run these guys soon. But I would love to hear any experiences anyone else has with them in N4

    20201130_032211.jpg
    Spin up those guns comrade.
     
    #2 Kreslack, Nov 30, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
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  3. Axelius

    Axelius Not a Rogue AI

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    Well damn, guess I'm gonna have to get myself another Ratnik.
     
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  4. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    That conversion is so exceedingly cool.
     
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  5. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    @Kreslack Where did you get those wonderful miniguns?
     
  6. Kreslack

    Kreslack Unknown Ranger lead the way!

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  7. Abydog

    Abydog Well-Known Member

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    hasslefree has a mini gun, too. bit I am not certain about the size and scale for it on a ratnik, have to put one next to it to see...
     
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  8. Bobblehead

    Bobblehead Well-Known Member

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    Ahh.. The Ratnik.. The very beutifull and overcosted TAK maskot that sits on the sidelines and cheering the team on.
    Its even worse now than it was in N3 because it got bad knees and only dodges on PH9 now.

    It has no use in TAK and even less in vanilla for its points.
     
  9. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    Like a lot of those S5 units with mediocre BS, no ability to obtain link bonuses, and no visual, the Ratnik kinda blows.

    The Azrail is in a very much similar boat in the sense that he packs a nasty gun that pastes most things it hits...the challenge is landing a hit with the aforementioned limitations. For the Ratnik this is compounded by the fact that he degrades when he takes a wound...

    Imo the cheaper Vet Kazak is better in every way.
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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  11. The Holy Knight

    The Holy Knight Well-Known Member

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    I like the big model, this like the blackjacks. I'm so sorry that the Ava of blackjacks is 1 on vanilla, I would like to place the 2 blackjack models and the ratnik on the table; just for fun.
     
  12. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    Vet Kazak is just better.

    Like the Blackjack the Ratnik is sidelined.
     
  13. The Holy Knight

    The Holy Knight Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and this is so sad.
    I disapprove very much the very unfai difference between the blackjack-ratnik and the azra'il.
    I would like to see BJ and ratnik get atleast tactical awareness; and i don't understan why the big size weapon of them haven't bonus to damage or something equivalent.
    .
     
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  14. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    They need to get rid of Battle Ravaged if they want to keep them priced where they are.
     
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  15. mightymuffin

    mightymuffin Well-Known Member

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    I was hoping they'd at least start at BS14, (BS13 when battle-ravaged) - after all, why shouldn't the best shooters be given the best gear?!?
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think comparing to the most cost effective SHI and the only one with Continuous Damage and +1 DAM is setting the expectations a bit high. Most SHI don't have damage increasers and the only other SHI that uses TAG weapons only get MULTI ammo as their damage increasing source.

    Still, they're a bit pricey, if only considering that Ariadna can't hope to protect them in the hacking game.

    This is easier to explain with Ariadna, of course, since if Nomads can't tinker a targeting computer to take them above BS13 and Yu Jing can't afford it for their highest ranking "gendarmerie", then Ariadna probably can't either.
     
  17. mightymuffin

    mightymuffin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, except that (a) if a 1W HI Ariadnan is BS13 & the suits must surely come with enhanced targetting systems, (otherwise why do they drop a point of BS when battle-ravaged), then surely they can start them at BS14?
    Oh, and (b), Margot is BS14.

    Each to their own - to me, when combined with their hackable status, I just don't see the point in taking them over other "standard" HI.
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Margot's high BS is odd to me. I'd have expected that to be on their first "real" HI (Kosmosoldat). But myeah... BS levels don't always make much sense.

    I hinted at it, but I've found the Ratnik to be a very 'ardy opponent and when I've faced it it's been on a similar level as Spetsnaz in pure concentrated pain in the butt to deal with. It's true that Vet Kazaks typically cause more problems, but because of the cannon fodder they're linked with buffing them up.
    What I'm saying is that their performance curve felt appropriate as a centre piece on the table for the sphere's designated low tech army, the ravaged state also makes for storytelling inside the game and inside the rules - it's the price rather than performance that seems off. You know; like they missed the hackable discount that most hackable heavy infantry got.
     
  19. mightymuffin

    mightymuffin Well-Known Member

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    I think their price is too high as well - compared to the other HI - when they don't provide any notable benefits beyond a 2nd "genuine" wound. Maybe I've played with the Vet Kazaks too much though, and have only tried the Ratnik once, (it didn't do much apart from soak up some orders to kill it off).

    My thought was making them BS14 units might give them that "interesting" edge, enough to offset their other downsides.
     
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  20. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    I've tried out double Ratniks once when giving TAK a spin.
    One of each profile.

    Really the main advantages I can think of are that:
    a) The Spitfire profile comes with burst 5 out the gate for drowning stuff in raw volume of dice. It also can pull a "Long Ya" maneuver of chucking either it's entire Flammenspeer payload or Panzerfaust payload as a hail Mary shot outside the Spitfires good range.
    b) The HRL is fun. Probably not as practical as the Spitfire, but it does have a Burst 3 template gun out to 32" as well as a Heavy Shotgun, so it isn't nothing.
    c) Dogged means you have 3 wounds to lose to truly get rid of it. So it's nice either to get some extra pushing in, even if it's with the BS12 profile ( Not that bad when you get 5 dice to shoot with anyways. ), or just to annoy people more with your continued survival for the turn survival.
     
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