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Puppets in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Captain_Rose, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. Captain_Rose

    Captain_Rose Well-Known Member
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    Haven't spent much time looking at my Nomads since N4 dropped, but picking back up my Tunguska army for a new year painting challenge.

    The puppetbots seem to have changed quite significantly and I just really wanted to check I hadn't missed something in my understanding.

    1. They no longer form a Haris, it is instead a 'control unit'. This means they don't get the fireteam benefits, but the 'Full Power' profile has Burst +1 so in reality it is similar (losing the ARO ability).

    2. I think in N3 they had a restriction where you couldn't use supportware on them - or maybe that's my imagination. In any case, I can't see anything that means you couldn't use Assisted Fire on a Puppetbot - making them quite a nasty cheap offensive unit.

    3. In another change from N3 (I think!) the controller no longer does nothing. When you spend an order, both controller and bots can perform the same skills (or rather, the control unit leader does it with the controller). They can select different targets - which could be useful, but I think only if you're on your last bot and he's about to die because losing the controller makes the bots 'disconnected'.

    Is there anything there which people disagree with? Any other tactics you've found in N4 for the bots?
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    It's as you say, but for the Haris part: the bots need to remain "as if in a haris" (coherency with the leader), and get the +1B only in the active turn, yeah.

    Assisted Fire now only removes cover bonuses, it no longer gives Shock. It's good, but... I'm not sure about paying 15pts for that (or the extra 9pts on top of the basic baggage).
     
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  3. Mayel

    Mayel Ursi de Tunguska

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    When you put the master in suppressive fire, all your puppets are in suppressive fire (if the weapon allows it).
    This point mitigates the loose of B2 in ARO.
     
  4. Captain_Rose

    Captain_Rose Well-Known Member
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    Yes - I had seen this, but without forward deploying I'm not sure it is so useful early on. Turn 2 strategy I suppose it could work out.

    As far as 15 points for assisted fire - you also have the option of the other controlled jump if you have Spector. I don't necessarily think it is an auto-include with puppets, but it isn't a bad option, especially if you're taking the evo hacker anyway. Ignoring cover on a Burst 5 Red Fury isn't a bad way to leverage differing mods to wreck some havoc in my opinion.
     
  5. Soul Hunter

    Soul Hunter Member

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    Sorry if I'm going a bit off topic here but does anybody know some good proxie models for the puppetbots? I don't really like the original ones..
     
  6. Quickit

    Quickit Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't impressed with the originals either - I'm using the Midnight Sun Analyst as the controller, and am using Pi-Well and two Fast Pandas with guns put into their hands as my Puppets. Another option I considered was the MadTraps from Xi Zhuang. They're the same
     
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  7. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    thumbnail_IMG_0519.jpg

    My puppets. I got them before the actual minis dropped, and while not strictly legal they do have Nomad guns that I sacrificed CB models for, and no event TO has ever had a problem with them. I don't intend to replace them. They were painted by Ultramega Studios.

    The Claptraps were available on Ebay from Armorcast.

    I feel the Puppet Master is more of an auto-include because of Counter Intelligence, but the Puppets are so good that they are in about 75% of my lists. They are great speedbumps and order sinks in the reactive, and disposable fast shock troops in the active.

    I don't feel you need an EVO to run them well, but it obviously doesn't hurt. I believe REM driver can affect them too if you're playing Vanilla, but I play TJC.

    Puppets are phenomenal in N4 if you ask me. They lost very little for what they gained. I've even been able to throw 8 dice at one target with the Puppet's Red Fury and Puppetmaster's SMG.

    If I have the SWC, I like to run the full troupe in N4. The shotgun is an excellent weapon on them because they essentially have 2 Structure, move 6", and don't cost you order if they die.

    You don't have to take a full troupe with them, and there is no penalty for taking just one. I have taken the PM Minelayer with a single BSG to counter deploy Impersonators in one off games.

    You can also start them all off on Suppression Fire at deployment (if they have the right weaponry) by spending a Strategic Use Command Token if you start reactive. Personally I have always chosen to rob orders, but I can see where it could be more useful to choose this option.
     
    #7 jfunkd, Jan 6, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
  8. Captain_Rose

    Captain_Rose Well-Known Member
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    I'll be honest, even in N3 most TJC lists I made came with a full troupe of puppetbots. I like them, I like their style and I think they're a great option for so many things - including the boarding shotgun specialist in tow.
     
  9. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    If nobody's mentioned it yet; the puppets can be forced into a disconnected state if your opponent destroys the spearhead, and you need to spend an order nominating a new spearhead to get them out of it.
     
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  10. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    Edit: Im sorry, I am incorrect. @RobertShepherd thank you for pointing that out.
     
    #10 jfunkd, Jan 6, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
  11. Captain_Rose

    Captain_Rose Well-Known Member
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    Do you have a rules reference for me? I can't find the becoming disconnected if spearhead is killed. Can only see if controller is in a null state.

    Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk
     
  12. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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  13. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    I dug into these rules, Coherency, and Unconscious and I have questions.

    How is Spearhead canceled?

    Can Coherency be measured to an unconscious troop?

    Looking at it there seems to be some legit holes in the rules here. Spearhead was an odd choice to use since it doesn't have any relevance other than being an indicator and no other rules.

    My initial reading of these rules was that the Spearhead was only placed down in the Active phase when an order was declared, like in a coordinated order, and wasn't a "Fireteam Leader" token that was persistent. That doesn't make a lot of sense when the rule references checking coherency of AROs around the Spearhead unit.

    Maybe I'm missing something obvious, it's a distracting night in the USA, I hope someone can clear this up for me.
     
    #13 jfunkd, Jan 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    My understanding - and like you say, it's confusing, so I'm not totally confident of this - is as follows:
    • at deployment and the beginning of each order with the puppets, one of the puppets is nominated as the spearhead
    • at the beginning and end of each order and ARO the puppets take, check coherency of all puppets to the spearhead
    • puppets not in coherency disconnect until they pass a coherency check at the end of an order or ARO
    Which means:
    • if a spearhead puppet is rendered unconscious, it doesn't stop being the spearhead (I think; the alternate interpretation is that the automatic skill peripheral (control) turns off when they go unconscious but I'm not sure that would cancel being a spearhead) so you can still measure coherency to it (someone might want to check this - I think I asked once but can't remember the answer)
    • if a spearhead puppet is destroyed, you have to remove it from the table so the other puppets fail their coherency checks and disconnect
    • once disconnected, you have to spend an order, nominate a new puppet as the spearhead, and then at the end of that order they'll reconnect and can act as normal in subsequent actions
    What this means is that if someone snipes out your lead puppet, the others turn off and it's a pain in the arse to get them going again.

    One small silver lining is that disconnected models can't execute orders so presumably don't take AROs while they're reconnecting.
     
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  15. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    I share a lot of your uncertainties.

    Would be nice if this were included in a (hopefully) upcoming FAQ.
     
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  16. Captain_Rose

    Captain_Rose Well-Known Member
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    Okay, I follow now thanks. It was late last night I was reading and just didn't connect the dots.


    Peripheral (Control)
    • There is no limit to the operating distance between the Trooper with Peripheral (Control) and their Controller.
    • The Controller may have a maximum of three Peripherals (Control) under their control. These Peripherals form a Control Unit.
    • The player must designate one member of the Control Unit as the Spearhead, placing a Spearhead Token (SPEARHEAD) beside it.
    I think the bit in bold suggests you'd put a 'persistent' marker down, like a fireteam leader marker. It does seem to follow that if the spearhead gets removed from the table, then that probably means you're out of coherency and become disconnected. That's a bit of a shame really - and seems to make them a little weaker in ARO than I'd thought (although still not bad!)
     
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  17. Captain_Rose

    Captain_Rose Well-Known Member
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