1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Two Pistols in CC

Discussion in 'Rules' started by vatsetis, Jan 5, 2021.

  1. vatsetis

    vatsetis Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    7
    Which conspiration?? Im only talking about what I personally consider a bad design decision (with minor effects) in an otherwise good game... The sky is not falling.

    I just find odd that B bonuses to CC are so rare (they are reserve to only a few extremely good named fighters) unless you happend to carry arround a couple of pistols...

    ... On ther other hand if this CC boost to dual pistols was indeed intended, it seems to not have been costed in the ITS...

    ... And now I will go back to my lonely mountain cottage to unveil the secrets of the NWO ;)
     
    #21 vatsetis, Jan 5, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
  2. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    8,073
    Even if they did not set out from an initial design perspective to make dual pistol models get a CC upgrade, it seems they decided it was an acceptable tradeoff. And the fact that some cc-capable models got upgraded to dual pistols implies that they have since then used it intentionally in unit design.
     
    inane.imp likes this.
  3. vatsetis

    vatsetis Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    7
    Well CB is clearly into the business of pistol porn... As a retroffited rationality it makes perfect sense.
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    Soo... Do we know if this stacks with Fireteam Burst Bonuses when using BS Weapons yet, or not?
     
  5. vatsetis

    vatsetis Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    7
    Why shouldnt they do it? Is there a rule against bonus stacking from different habilities??
     
  6. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    Fireteam rules say it stacks with other bonuses in the active turn doesn't it?

    Yes, the modifier rules prevent you from stacking burst bonuses unless explicitly stated otherwise (such as in the Fireteam rules)
    https://infinitythewiki.com/Skills_and_Equipment_in_Infinity
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    I mean in CC (Perseus in a 3-person Fireteam declares CC Attack with his Heavy Pistol, is that B2 or B3):

    See this thread for what I'm talking about:

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/index.php?threads/38631/
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    As Tox noted in the thread you linked to, if the pistol in CC mode counted as a BS Weapon you would not be able to declare a CC Attack with it.
     
    RobertShepherd and Dragonstriker like this.
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    It's irrelevant that it's not a CC Weapon.

    First, it's not a requirement of CC Attack that you be using a CC Weapon:

    "Be using a Melee Weapon, a Skill, or piece of Equipment that allows for a CC Attack."

    Second, the Pistol rules says that it's a BS Weapon that can be used to perform CC Attacks:

    "The various types of Pistols are BS Weapons with two usage modes.

    Burst Mode uses the BS Attribute to make BS Attacks. On the other hand, CC Mode uses the CC Attribute to make CC Attacks in Close Combat."

    A Pistol is a BS Weapon that is used to make CC Attacks, so why wouldn't it get the Burst bonus that applies to BS Weapons?
     
    Nuada Airgetlam likes this.
  10. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,560
    Likes Received:
    3,542
    [​IMG]

    FYI. a Melee Weapon is a weapon with the CC trait
     
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    Melee Weapons are not defined in the rules. But let's assume for a moment that you're correct, because it's a reasonable inference: the only weapons that meet the requirements of a CC Attack is a Melee Weapon and the Effects of CC Attack state that "By declaring a CC Attack, Troopers may only use those Weapons with the CC Trait."

    Why can't a Pistol be both a Melee Weapon a BS Weapon at the same time? AFAICT nothing in the Rules even remotely suggests that they're mutually exclusive sets.

    Indeed, the opposite is true: only Melee Weapons can perform CC Attacks and the rules state that a Pistol is a BS Weapon that in one of its usage modes can perform CC Attacks. Ergo a Pistol is both a BS Weapon and a Melee Weapon.

    Did you read the rules for Pistols and the rules for Mixed Weapons and note how they deal with this problem in a very different way?

    Mixed Weapons make it clear that each mode is a distinct weapon type: you have a BS Weapon Mode and a Melee Weapon Mode.

    Pistols, however, don't say this: the say that "The various types of Pistols are BS Weapons with two usage modes.

    Burst Mode uses the BS Attribute to make BS Attacks. On the other hand, CC Mode uses the CC Attribute to make CC Attacks in Close Combat."

    So to reiterate:
    Either it is irrelevant that a Pistol is not a Melee Weapon because the Pistol rules specifically allow Pistols to perform CC Attacks without meeting the requirements of CC Attack (ie being a Melee Weapon).

    Or, it's simultaneously both a BS Weapon and, in one of its usage modes, a Melee Weapon because it has the CC Trait and - unlike Mixed Weapons - no rules say it stops being a BS Weapon in that usage mode.

    In either case the outcome is the same: Twin Pistols will stack with the Fireteam BS Weapon Burst bonus in a CC Attack in the Active Turn.
     
  12. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,560
    Likes Received:
    3,542
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    That explains how to read a Melee Weapons profile but doesn't define a Melee Weapon.

    But, OK, you're arguing that a Pistol is a Melee Weapon. So what, I'm saying that it doesn't matter they it's a Melee Weapon: it also simultaneously remains a BS Weapon. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
     
    chromedog likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation