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IA Wishlisting

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by wes-o-matic, Dec 10, 2020.

  1. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    There are some things that I really wish CB would give to the Invincible Army to add some nuance to list building, and a little extra flavor. I figure the sectorial leans into big guns and HI (very covered), wildcards (also covered in spades), engineers, REMs, counter hacking, and command/control skills. So I’d like:

    Counterintelligence: This seems thematically appropriate for either a specific Hac Tao profile, or a Daoying non-LT profile. Neither is an optimal platform choice for the ability, but it would make for an interesting option. Don’t want it too good, since this sectorial is already more or less the best TacAware order spam faction in the game.

    Lieutenant (+1 Command Token) Zhanshi: I’ve been messing with Dahshat lists lately, and something that they can do which IA would benefit from is bringing this type of LT to have extra leeway for forming and reconfiguring fireteams. The fact that IA has so many possible configurations with wildcards and both Zuyongs and Shang Ji coming with universal No2 would synergize well with this and give the force some extra flexibility in the field. It’d also make the humble Zhanshi LT potential competition for the Daoying in certain lists.

    Alternately, giving Qiang Gao this ability to represent him being a veteran Invincible team leader would make sense, and also make him more competitive with the Daoying and his peer HMG HI.

    AVA 2 Hac Tao: Again, not universally optimal, but it opens up some list options slightly. NCA has AVA 2 Swiss Guards. It’s a stupid lot of points, but it’s also a way to hide a stupid lot of points and potentially spooky AROs.

    Veteran Chung-Hee Jeong: Why isn’t he already?

    Haidao NCO or Specialist Operative: The basic combi Haidao seems like it should have a near zero pick rate in IA, and I can’t fathom what we’re supposed to use him for. Just make all Haidao some kind of specialist, or make him a wildcard NCO. Or a paramedic?

    Forward Deploying or Infiltrating Chaiyi profile: I’d pay a few extra points to make our mimetic flash pulse repeater bots FD+4” or 8” in lists with the points to spare and a need for more midfield. Not exactly Guilangs, but we could really use something a little more expendable to buffer the midfield and provide an early game repeater presence.

    A character hacker: This would be something like a non-linkable, non-LT character Daoying with either a KHD plus Zero Pain and/or White Noise, or just those two programs but no actual hacking device. The Daoying models look great but spend a lot of time as camo markers, so I’d want to have mim-6 instead of Camouflage to guarantee table time. Equip her with a deployable repeater and minelayer, or a pitcher, but not both on the same profile. I’m thinking light shotgun and SMG, or breaker combi and blitzen for loadouts.

    A character REMdriver engineer: I think this might be interesting. Young hotshot Irregular (doesn’t listen well) engineer with a couple of weird REMdriver options to represent her custom modifications to whatever REM she’s got in the field right now. For example: GizmoKit (PH=8), ARM +4; Firewall +3 and Veteran; B +1, WIP=11, Marksmanship; 360° Visor and Dodge +6. (Those represent ironclad, anti-hacker hardening, modified targeting system, and modified battlespace navigation respectively.)

    Armament is a combi rifle, e/marat (for disabling haywire “projects”), and breaker pistol. Equipment would be the obligatory Engineer kit, and Climbing Plus. One profile could have no REMdriver skill, replacing it with Assisted Fire and Fairy Dust programs (no actual hacking device though). Give her a custom Yaozao with Climbing Plus so it can keep up with her.

    Being Irregular in IA isn’t great, but an engineer with climbing plus would be an asset for reaching a downed Guijia on a rooftop, an EM template adds to the sectorial’s repertoire slightly, and frankly I like the flavor as a way of offsetting the oh-so-serious tone of IA’s other characters.

    Super-Jumping Weibing Yaokong FTO profile: Give us something that can keep up with a Guijia besides another Guijia! It’s called a Guardian Remote, it’s right there in the name. I’d also accept a Husong Yaokong FTO with SJ just because of the “Escort Remote” in the name, but I don’t know how often I’d take one.

    What do you think?
     
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  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to say something completely heretical; I'm happy with IA and the level of customization I can get from it makes it difficult for me to play WB, ISS or Dahshat. Haven't really built too many lists with JSA, but I have a feeling I'll end up with similar conclusions. Only a meta that shifts hard to hacking will probably push me to other factions.

    Okay okay, I wouldn't mind having access to Long Ya and Kunai and Zuyong could use a grenade launcher, but that's gravy on top of a decent sectorial with well defined challenges, strengths, and drawbacks.

    Yan Huo is kind of bad, though. Here's my shitpost on it:

    Yan Huo
    <Current stats>
    Bioimmunity, Immunity (shock), Courage
    Yan Huo (Neurocinetics). MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Pistol, CCW. 51 points 1,5 SWC
    Yan Huo. Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Pistol, CCW. 47 points 1,5 SWC
    Yan Huo (Double Shot). Missile Launcher, Heavy Pistol, CCW. 47 points 1,5 SWC
    Yan Huo Lieutenant. Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Pistol, CCW. 47 points 1,5 SWC
    Yan Huo Lieutenant (Neurocinetics). MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Pistol, CCW. 51 points 1,5 SWC
    No Fireteams.

    Basically, HRMC is unchanged, the MHMG changed to be an ARO piece primarily which is an area that Yu Jing and IA are kind of bad in even if that doesn't seem to be part of the active design (and come on; it costs more than a Marksmanship buffed TR remote from CA!), and the ML profiles becomes a bit in-between by being a bit like a KoJ ML with permanent Haris bonus at the expense of being large and terrible in CC. Points are guesstimates based on the assumption that Fireteam: Duo still costs a point, which I'm not sure it does.
    Courage might be the drop that takes it over the line, but you know... wishlist!
     
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  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'd like Sun Tzu. Maybe with a different load out.

    Zhanshi need anything to make them worth the points.

    That would be nice but I think AVA 1 Daofei would be even better.

    I'd really like a doctor. Paramedic at the least. TBH though, does anyone take the basic trooper on any of them? Who takes a BSG Daoying or pain combi Zuyong if you can avoid it?

    Cool idea but I'd like it on the Weibing! They need some forward repeaters of some sort. Also sensor. I'd like access to the Long Ya too.

    Characters would be fun but I think a Liu Xing, Daoying, or Hulang character would be more interesting.

    Cool idea.

    As i suggested above. I'd like a Forward Deploy Weibing.

    If It's wish listing, I'd want the Hulang to be a bit better. They added some ok stuff to him to make him a little better but really not enough. He's still expensive, a big target, hackable.

    Next wish is they don't wait years to come out with Shang Ji, or another Liu Xing.
     
  4. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    I like to give some thoughts/opinions from me here. First, I think IA is getting quite good in N4. Daoying lost its auto-include Hacking Programm, but is getting cheaper in return. Tai lost her exclusive NCO Status, but in exchange, her male alter ego gets some real use now.

    I would like that and the Daoying non-Lt. profile would be a nice candidate, but than you plan a list with an NCO order less, so you will still miss two orders ... I think a good candidate would be the Haidao Combi (see below). But I doubt that this will be happen. IA can build a 15 order list with 10 minis and it works!

    I wonder about the Gulahm Lt. +1 CT. Why they give a line troop Lt such a powerful profile? And Haq is not known for its superior command skills either. So, yes, not bad on a Zhanshi, but I see it more on Qiang to make him a bit unique. Poor Zhanshi don´t need Dodge +1" to go down 1 pts ... *sigh*.

    I agree, they are so many strange high avas in game. And I would make a double HT list just for fun.

    I would like to see him cheaper or give him Engineer+3 and keep the price.

    I don´t mind the basic profile, now that he has no limit in wildcarding, he could be used as a filler. The miniature has good use as engineer/coc. Sure a para or doc would not be bad either. Speaking of the Haidao I never feel tempted to use the red fury one.

    I don´t think, we need this and I don´t think I would pay for this.

    IA has five characters already, I don´t think, we need more. A hacking char is the least one, I would think of. We are not the hacking sectorial, we are the hacking protection sectorial ;-)
    I understand, that everyone wants a REM drive now, but ... see above no need for more chars - buy a EVO and a Rui Shi and go for it.

    This would be a good idea. It will give a fresh use for the Weibing.

    Apart from this, I would like to see a clean up with the Zuyong profiles. They are so many and usualy you´ll take the same: HMG TA, Tinbot TA ... maybe a specialst. ML for ARO? Situational. Use Haidao or Sunbae instead. Shotgun? No need, if you put a Haidao KHD in (but I often put her in because I like her and she does a good job in N3). The basic profiles for combi and HMG are wasted space. Why take combi & Tinbot without TA? Does someone ever used a HMG loadout without TA? Make Multi-Rifle great again (it IS a good weapon, no doubt) with a second use like a specialist option (even with TA ... but oh, what will the Shang Ji say?). Maybe her is room for a LT +1 CT.
     
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  5. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    I haven’t played them yet, but I’ve used the Regeneration HMG in a couple lists, one as a solo operator and the other as part of a Haris intended to move upfield and deliver specialists, then break and put the Zuyong regen HMG in sup fire behind partial cover. ARM 6 in cover, regenerates on a 12, BS13 HMG? Yes please.
     
  6. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    I don't really like the vast majority of those sugestions.
    • LT+1order on a zhanshi just doesn't make sense
    • Gao only needs a capable Chain of command that doesn't restrain your list or your fireteams
    • I don't mind a AVA2 hactao but I doubt it would be a huge thing
    • chung-hee doesn't need veteran skill because he is a LI. The sources that can put him on isolated or could make him irregular are small. Only EM. The HI engineers are the ones that need some veteran or Inmunity: EM love.
    • Haidaos have 2 good profiles. MSVsniper and Killer hacker. the rest are dull as fuck!
    • I would love some hacking boost... but Yujing hacking is from bad to mediocre. I dont dare to thing they could give us a superhacker multytool character. but if they give us one, it would fit more inside Imperial services... they're the control and vigilance maniacs
    • kind of the same or the rem driver. right now It's an aleph thingy
    • we don't need new remotes currently. If anything they think we would need a FD remote, they'll just give us Disp 1-2 of the Yaofang Longya
    • the Superjump Weibing... well It would be interesting for the guijia if they were wildcards but they're not

    My personal wishlist

    Daoying: Since N4 and the changes on hacking this dude has gonne down HUGELY. They're supposed to be Suntzu apprentices, the brains of the IA. Guys that can rise up the performance of their teammates... Surprisingly the only one with command skills is the LT profile. In my opinion this troop need some N4 love. Specially on non LT options, and this are some options could be interesting for Mr Gutier to think about.
    • Hacker device :5: Hacker EVO device (upgrade: carbonite or spotlight): A callback to the old version and Team support on it's prime
    • Chain of command profile (without Lt+1Order): In my opinion this guy and not the haidao is the optimal candidate for this skill. this would allow us to use most of our good aggressive LT troops.And pivot to them instead of going on the NCO path. plus this guy would be a decent late game specialist
    • Counterinteligence. Interesting skill inside this edition
    Zencha: Since the sectorial launch I've notied this guy would have a hard time trying to handle midtable by itself. In my opinion I only needs one profile to fix this problem.
    • Decoy+Minelayer with Combi+shock mines.This profile can be exlusive for invinible and can be locked down behind 0.5-1cap to avoid abuse. 3 markers behind a 40+troop should solve the issues of invinible midfielding. Plus a combi rifle to deal with TR bot's from 16''. Something that right now is tricky.
    Haidao: Haidaos are supposed to be 0G specialized troops designed to supplement the invincible HI fireteams. equipped with unusual and advanced tech equipment, engineering and demolition skills. Why only 2 profiles are worth fitting into our lists? why do they seem a bad version of an evader? I have some suggestions
    • Veteran skill for all profiles. This would be good for the hacker, the engineer and every other support option. at least engeneers would be less affected by hacking and EM so they can perform their engineer jobs after a reset. I think we can deal with -3 or -6 resets but the issolated mods and implications seem too much for a HI engineer
    • Sensor in the engineer+combi profile.
    • MSV in the red fury profile. taking out some pressure of the MSV or the ruishi.
    • Grenade launcher (+1damage) +pitcher profile. It's a shame that only the zhanshi has grenade launcher in the heavy weapon sectorial
    Krit: This guy just needs to be veteran or EM inmune to do it's engineering job inside a fireteam

    Yanhuo: Courage please!!! If someone needs to stand still against heavy enemy fire, is the super armored guy!
    Another thing that would be heavily useful is to give them a second unconscious state. Without a +2W doctor in the sectorial, It's second wound is one use only and it's a shame. I don't like it as ARO piece just because those 2 things. He dies too soon after an unlucky armor roll and has the unpleasing habit of fail gut's rolls after the first impact. I'm tired of wasting command tokens on him to keep him standing.

    Hulang: I would like him to dodge a little better. He would be facing Direct templates, mines and a lot o situations were dodge would be a must. In one hand we have the +1PH option. It would be good for dodging, throwing grenades, heal by medikits and exit out of the INM-A state. On the other hand we have the +3 dodge. I dont know wich one I like the most.
    I would also want him to be 6-2 movement so move+dodge could give him a little extra reach
    Another Historic claim for him is the Frenzy skill. Just for cost efficiency and going for CC with more ease (order eficiency and less cost impact on loss)

    For the rest of the sectorial I'm mostly happy. I only miss some kind of smoke to solve complicated situations. but it seems is not IAs motto to hide or use indirect tactics
     
    #6 Mc_Clane, Dec 12, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
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  7. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    If there's ONE thing I'd actually want for IA, it's this. Counter-intel, especially now that "Limited Insertion" lists lack ( And generally don't need anymore. ) the old protection against order removal.

    Yeah, overall, from what little I've managed to play of IA in N4, IA feel solid enough. ( Which is only a handful, mostly on TTS due to how things are going, and also due to TTS letting me do stupid lists with reckless abandon and try out factions with nearly-as-reckless abandon. )

    What they have good going for them is really damn good, but it isn't so good as to lack any drawbacks. That and they are one of the easiest factions to apply a "win through the kill" bend to, which is a plus for me, since N4 has so far made my old approach of "a dead enemy cannot do an objective" a lot more feasible across the board.

    That's something I wouldn't expect happening, this dream has died for well over a year now I think. AVA 2 Hac Taos is more feasible. And more brute-forcey, which fits IA.

    I've fiddled around with the Haidao Red Fury. Best way I can describe it is as a "backup for the backup" attack piece if I'm running a Zhanshi core. Essentially in the event the main kill pieces die/are grossly out of position, I could break the link down to a three man and try to brute force what's left of the enemy with a B5 Red Fury.

    Yeah, there are a bunch of weird AVAs. That said that's probably because the 400 point sized games technically exist, so in that context it makes sense.
     
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  8. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    I do really like new Hulang but there are still few things that could be better.
    1 Change Crazy Koala into MadTrap.
    2 Give him eclipce grenades.
    3 Why the hell does shooty HI get 6-2 but their wildcard CC buddy doesnt? He would be sooo much better with 6-2.
    4 If there is 1 YJ unit that would fluff wise deserve Frenzy discount is Hulang. Let YJ have 1! unit that abuses frenzy in a link. And the best part is that Hunlang FD is a real thing and this profile wouldn't abuse frenzy, he gets it fair compared to most other frenzy HI like riots, asawira or knights of something.

    Plain Daoying BSG with LT+1 order +1 Command tokend would be cool.

    With ITS 12 not protecting Limited Insertion from cutting orders Counterinteligence would be usefull. Its sort of hard to find a good unit for it but as mentioned before Daoying BSG non LT profile could be a good fit.

    Fix Qiang Gao. There is already thread about this but it looks like this guys cost is wrong compared to similar units like Shang Ji, Zuyong.

    Please, Zhencha minelayer profile! Best with repeater/EM mines but at this point I'll take shock mines with a smile.

    Haidao. I did some math and it looks like either Haidao should be 2-3 points cheaper or Evader more expensive.
    BTS 3 on Haidao please. These guys are used in space, there is freaking radiation in space. BTS according to its description is there to protect user from unconventional dangers, and radiation is mentioned as one of them.
    Edit: Considering most other space units have 360 visor I wouldnt mind Haidao getting +3 BTS and 360 visor without changing its cost to make it fair compared to Evaders.
     
  9. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    I've heard this a few times before, but I don't know if we have any concrete gear costing pinned down nowadays.
    The cost change do make some semblance of sense at least when comparing the "basic" profiles:



    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]1
    EVADER MULTI Rifle, Panzerfaust, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)

    0 SWC | 24 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]1
    HǍIDÀO Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21)

    0 SWC | 21 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    We have three points over the Haidao. We degrade the CC by 3, that saves a few. Then we also downgrade the Pistol, that probably saves some. So 3 + the savings should be able to cover for 3BTS ( BTS is preety cheap last I heard. ), upgrading the Combi to an MR and Specialist+Deactivator shouldn't be too expensive. Only part that seems kind of suspicious is if we have enough room leftover to fit the Panzerfaust.


    1. Wouldn't this be a downgrade against most midfield targets? Granted it would thematically fit YJ far more, the CrazyKoala instead of a MadTrap on the Hulang sticks out like a sore thumb honestly, but still, the Koala is scarier for midfield skirmisher than a trap.
    2. As much as having access to Eclipse in YJ in general would be huge, I highly doubt we'll ever get that stuff. Wish Nimbus nades stil lexisted, a nimbus nade would be neat.

    TBH just a regular Shock Mine, or if I may dare dream, MadTrap or CrazyKoala would be a very interesting option. As is though I'm fine enough using the profiles that we have already, getting Shock Immunity on the Zhencha was huge as is.

    TBF, I don't think the loss of LI protection is as big as people make it out to be. The protection came from a time when lists were uncapped, NCO and TacAware did not exist, fewer good aggressive Lieutenants ( Those existed, we simply have more of them now. ) and Strategos options were far less abundant/effective. Nowadays most armies can run effectively 11+ order combat groups if they wanted to, so losing 2 orders from your 10+4Tac/NCO order Zuyong Core isn't the end of the world.

    That said it would make the regular BSG Daoying more appealing, since it lacks the notability of being a decent Camo Hacker ( We don't have many of those in IA to begin with and it's 14-25 points cheaper than the other two. ) and the MSRs defensive capability nor it's niche as an easy reserve for knocking out a TR bot on your first order.
     
  10. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    Base Evader has +1 PH, +3 BTS, Deactivator, Specialist Operative, Climb+, Multi weapon and Panzerfaust over base Haidao, Haidao gets +3 CC and breaker on pistol while being 3 points cheaper.
    3CC is 1 point looking at n4 changes, breaker pistol is 1 over normal pistol. Haidao has 2 points of stuff that Evader doesnt., so if we were to remove that he would be 5 points cheaper than Evader.
    1 PH is 1 point, 3BTS is 1 point, Specialist Operative is 1 point, Climb+ is 1 point, multi rifle is 2 points more than combi, Panzerfaust should be 1, deactivator looks like free when you compare engineer profiles. Evader gets 7 points of stuff Haidao doesnt have, while being "5" points more expensive.
    This leaves us with 2 points of difference after takin away all of their extra gear and stats. And on top of that Evader gets free deactivator on all profiles. I wouldnt mind 22 point KHD and 31 MSV, or just getting BTS3 and 360visor would be neat.
     
  11. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    That doesn't sound too bad, considering how inconsistent CBs pricings used to be.
    TBH I have a feeling they may have ditched a points formula to begin with and simply price everything separately. Or maybe each faction has has their own separate formula now.

    2 points missing doesn't sound that bad, TBH.
     
  12. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    In a void it doesnt. But when you consider list with both KHD and MSV its 4 points. Thats free yaozao for fixers. Or CoC on Tai. Or warcor if you are not capped.
    On the other hand if Evaders are too cheap getting 5man link is 10 points saved for free. That's an order you wouldnt have.
    Edit: And on the topic of price formula based on faction it would make sense to balance it properly. In that case factions with better hackers and engineers should pay more for their HI than factions that are worse at protecting and fixing their HI, right? Well, if that is the case then its hard to find faction better at these than nomads. Both in terms of 15 WIP engineers and 15 WIP hackers, with abover average repeater coverage and upgraded programs. So its nomads who would pay more for HI than YJ, but in case of Evader vs Haidao we pay at last 2 points more per unit.
     
    #12 Amusedbymuse, Dec 13, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
  13. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    This would be good, yes, but it will make her an autoinclude agian. Things change, we have to adapt.
    Yes! If somone deserves this, than the most expensive engineer we have.

    Would be fitting and it should be for free :-)

    Yes - this helmet deserves frenzy!

    Yes again, for a frontliner, that wants to be close and personal, he should get 6-2!
     
  14. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    1. It surely feels more convenient to a CC troop, but I don't think it fits fluf-wise. Madtraps and Glue guns are for "Police"-like factions/setorials. It's an arrest tool. It doesn't fit a Military stomping sectorial.
    2. I'd love it! even at the cost of loosing the +1 burst of the smg profile. I've been asking for it since this troop appeared, and I know for sure Gutier knows of this demand... I don't think we're getting it any time soon
    3. This is pretty odd in all yujing. Cranes and Adil are 10-10 too while zuyongs and jujaks are 6-2... Why? they've gotten it wrong!
    4. I'm not counting with it any time soon. Seems frenzy/impetuous and irregular are such a Sin inside Yujing as Smoke+MSV is inside Pano. After all, Yujing is a faction that deeply relates to discipline. our only irregulars are the shaolin and the warcors, and our only impetuous are kuangshi and shaolin.

    1. I don't see it as a downgrade. It feels more of a sidegrade
    2. yep. One of my main issues with hulang is his scarce capability to avoid direct templates. I suppose the nimbus could some sort of help at least against linked templates, shotguns and fireteam bonusses :face_with_rolling_eyes:

    I'm not so sure qiang has a math problem in it's profile, gutier math is tricky and I think yujing pays extra for the veteran skill. I think it's main problem is his unappealing loadout. I'd love to see a Heavy shotgun(+1B) profile with some juicy extra like a mine disperser or a panzerfaust+bagaje just for a change. after all, Quian starts the Defiance adventure with a Heavy shotgun, and seeing his sculpt it seems to have an ammo depot on his back.

    I agree, but good hackers seem to be another forbidden fruit inside yujing, and sometimes, VOL14+tinbots seem to be too good to be true. :joy:

    And regarding the cost... take into account that been cheaper is also an advantage by itself. 360 visors are expensive as hell and I don't like them so much. For the haidao I just want more profile diversity to cover tech roles that zuyongs, shangji and zhanshi are not prepared to cover. :face_with_rolling_eyes:

    Well, I'm not so sure. EVO pango is more afordable, and if they wan't to avoid the auto include thingy, just avoid the LT+1order skill on the same profile :face_with_rolling_eyes:. Right now there aren't much motives to put daoyings aside the LT options
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't consider Qiang Gao an IA problem. He's dead in the water in IA, competing with far too many units for what role he might fill. He used to be an okay LT choice for White Banner, though, but the edition transition nerfed him by making him about as much more expensive as other HI got cheaper which in turn made White Banner get a bit of a Nomad-LT problem.
    It seems he's meant to have NWI or Total Immunity.

    I think the only pistols that costs points are Multi Pistols and Assault Pistols. I don't think Heavy Pistols costs points and I'm confident Breakers are free. Multi Rifle over a Combi seems to be 2 points now a-days while Panzerfausts are still 2 points. From the outlandish CC changes going from N3, they've either done it to obfuscate that CC is a cost-fudging stat or they've actually lowered the price on CC. It seems Evaders aren't paying for Deactivator considering the Engineer prices are still at 4, same as Engineers that gain a Deactivator.

    Roughly speaking, there's 9 places where the two profiles differ that's gonna cost points. Cross-comparing with Zuyong and Jujak, it seems the price difference in the CC ability is at most 2 points between the Haidao and Evader, counting generously the Evader should be 29 points for the non-Engineer Multi Rifle profile. (As a small aside, the internal pricing of Yu Jing HI only makes sense if there is no points difference between a Jujak's Pistol and a Zuyong's Breaker Pistol +1B)
     
  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think the Haidao is actually costed correctly, they got the 4pt reduction in N4.

    At risk of sounding like I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, it's more likely someone has hand adjusted an extra points break onto the Evader for.... reasons possibly pertaining to blatant Nomad favoritism.

    If they cost something it probably has to be under 1 point, Assault Pistols are 1pt and they are way way better than breaker pistols.
     
    #16 Triumph, Dec 15, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  17. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    I’m not sure about Baggage, but giving him some additional weapon options sounds good. I’d probably play a grenade launcher + MULTI Rifle LT or a HSG (+1 Damage) non-LT. The latter in an aggressive Haris sounds interesting.

    I really want to like Quiang Gao and he’s in a few of my draft lists for future N4 play, but there are so many other HMG options in IA, and one of them is a Shock AP HMG that costs the same as him and brings a tinbot to a link. Right now his model is more likely to see the table as a proxy Shang Ji than as himself.

    At the moment he’s basically in lists I’m writing specifically to make decapitation harder, or with the expectation of facing Jammers.
     
  18. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking i'd like an option for more Breaker Combi Rifles. Breaker was first with YJ. So having a Zuyong or Haido with Breaker is not much of a stetch.
     
    Dragonstriker and wes-o-matic like this.
  19. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Huh? Is that a fluff thing I missed? I wasn't aware of any particular link between YJ and breaker ammo.

    The first Troop profiles we ever saw with Breaker were the Father Knight and Grenzer in Icestorm with Breaker pistols, before we even knew what a breaker pistol did! Then a bunch of units in N3 had breaker weapons across almost all factions.
     
  20. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I mean the fact that Gao is blatantly running an incorrect points cost really doesn't help shit either @Koni I know you guys are damn well aware of this you straight up deleted a post of mine pointing it out.

    That said, even if they fixed his points cost he'll probably still rarely ever see play, as you point out he just has so few reasons to exist when the Shang Ji and others are running around shitting on his doorstep.
     
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