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Nomad ARO pieces

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Alpharious, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. Alpharious

    Alpharious Member

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    Hello, fellow Nomad players!

    I've been playing vanilla Nomads quite a bit lately, and coming from Corregidor, they seem a little lackluster in terms of good ARO pieces. I was wondering, what do you usually bring to fulfill that role in your lists, and what am I be doing wrong?

    My main complaint a s that good shooting ARO pieces in our faction are really squishy and expensive at the same time, and usually can be countered extremely easy by your opponent.

    Sent from my M2007J3SG using Tapatalk
     
  2. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Almost all our aro pieces are caped at a BS13 with one or two useful skills, but not the strong combinations that can be seen out there... or pay a lot for them

    with an acceptable cost, in my opinion:
    riot grrrls with BS13, MSV1 and a good dodge with ML
    MB/taskmaster with BS13, arm5 and HRL/ML
    pulsebots for short aro
    moran, zero minelayer, heckler jammer for midfiel aro/slowers
    reaktion zond (which is almost the same for all factions)
    wildcat BS13 MSV1 with HRL, because he is cheap

    maybe grenzer markmanship, not sure about this one, but I think he is on the expensive side

    and on the premium cost (which are in my opinion too expensive at the moment for vainilla):
    Moira/spectr sniper with BS12 and mimetism -6 (and hidden deployment on the spectr)
    intruder sniper with BS13, camo, mimetism and MSV2. This dude has the strongest combination...but also is maybe the one that pays more for it in the entire game
    grenzer MSR, wildcat HRL
    sin eaters, neurocinetics and mimetism at premium cost... they are chearly designed as an ARO piece, but they are still too expensive and vulnerable at the same time.
     
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  3. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I've been recently hanging around with several Jaguars with Panzerfaust. I usually play the vanilla, but they might also be useful in Corregidor(even better if you could link them).
    They cost only 11 while they've got Dogged, Panzerfaust, and ADHL. I think it is a no brainer in terms of cost-effectiveness.
    Yes, they could be easily countered, but the only factor that they could make the opponent hesitate or invest more orders to trim out those cheap warbands, is an absolute win for me.

    And sometimes, if you need some B-graded CQB aro piece in dominating missions, Total reaction Salyuts are nice. A remote with Baggage and Combi rifle holding the line, is somewhat effective when the enemy attacks with less high-end troops.

    Edit. And always, a Reaktion Zond in your list is good for you health.
     
    #3 Ugin, Dec 7, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  4. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    The art of making an approach difficult (using ARO) is stacking multiple AROs if you can that your opponent will have to deal with in different ways.

    As a Nomad, you have a ton of midfield no-LoF ARO options: Morans, Hecklers, Zeros. Always use them, and use them -with- your longer-ranged ARO units.

    Get your midfield area-denial guys up to cover that corner the opponents want to put a linked HMG or sneaky TO guy behind to battle your TR bot or Sin Eater. They'll have to waste orders dodging koalas first, then a counter-hack. Or resting against a Jammer, etc. If you can get a koala AND a Jammer to cover the same area, double-bravo.

    Position a TO or sneaky ARO guy right behind (or above, if you have balconies on the table) your TR HMG bot or a guy in Suppressive Fire. Opponent enters with brute-force shooter (liked Spitfire for example), now they have to put at least two shots onto that unexpected target as well.

    And if you can't afford any of those, just put a Warcor out eating dirt in front of the TRHMG/Sin Eater.

    And never forget to put your Morans in Suppressive Fire in a crappy place to shoot if you can, preferably with less than 8+ of LoF on the approach ranges.

    Regarding specific units: Solo Riot Grrl missile launchers are one of the most-frustrating-to-remove ARO pieces out there. Whenever the opponent gives you crappy odds, Dodge. Go into the game where you field that just waiting to hear opponents' cries of grief, it's a sweet sound. They'll die eventually but it takes a LOT of orders.

    You can also add your own midfield annoyances using drop Hellcats with deployable repeaters or a Meteor (my favorite because it's a specialist and can Sensor out minefields: nobody ever seems to expect the damn thing).
     
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  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    We may have different concepts of what a good ARO piece needs to achieve.

    First, to me a good ARO piece makes the enemy waste orders, and survives as long as possible. The troops available for such needs change depending of what are you playing (vanilla, or any of the three sectorials), but they all need a doctor (or linked paramedic with B2 medikit) or servant close by to prolong their time on the table.

    Also, something very important is to deploy several ARO pieces to force the enemy to either face 2+ ARO, spread their Burst, or maneuver to cherry pick (in that regard, attacking pieces with MSV2 supported by smokers are incredibly efficient).

    Remember: Flash Pulse is a Technical Weapon, so at this time it doesn't get the B bonus from Fireteams, but now causes 2 BTS rolls instead of 1, so an unlinked FP troop is the same as a linked one.

    So, what you need (in order) would be:
    1. Visual modifiers (mimetism, marker state, etc...)
    2. MSV or high PH. Alternatively, high BS/MSV and a B2+ in reactive weapon (neurocinetics, total reaction, linked)
    3. A threatening weapon (cont. damage, circular template, etc...)
    4. Disposability (cheap, doesn't give regular order, etc...)
    That's one of the reasons the humble Warcor is the most efficient ARO piece in vanilla: on the one hand, it's dirt cheap (3pts), has a non-lethal weapon (that tends to suceed in applying the stunned state if ignored) and his loss is of an irregular order (unless Inspiring Leadership is in use, that is). The flash pulse remotes (7p mimetic that roll attack from 13) are the second.

    Now, if you don't know what to carry, the Total Reaction bot is a safe bet, because while it can be taken down by a combination of cover, range, and an extra -6 (directly from mimetism, a combination of mimetism and surprise attack, or shooting through smoke) like in N3, now it goes prone when unconscious, so it can be repaired on your turn (and gets up for free, without generating AROs), which means it needs to suffer 3 wounds in a single attack to be destroyed (a Remote Presence STR model has 2 Unconscious levels).

    Then we have to consider what gives pause, and what can survive. For short range, the Puppetactica is a great rock, don't expect them to do much damage in reactive (they no longer are a free extra Haris, but keep the +1B on BS attacks in the active turn), but can be annoyingly resilient for their cost, similar to a gecko but with a much smaller S value. The Vostok is quite the same (moving the resilience to the Mimetism -6 instead of having to suffer 4 wounds to be destroyed), but needs more support.

    If you play a sectorial, or vanilla with an EVO, the Tsyklon Feuerbach is quite the interesting choice.

    The Taskmaster HRL (minelayer with koalas), and the ML Brigada and Riot Grrrl are interesting choices in which, while expensive, remain more on the table (instead of 2 KO levels, they have one, but 2 wounds) and require/accept less support, and these three can be checked depending on your needs and points. The Taskmaster offers the most versatility, but costs more, while the Riot is the cheapest (in points) but has the lowest ARM and the highest dodge (16), being her problem that she loses cover once she inflicts damage but she can see through smoke (a Haris of riots is quite useful in Bakunin as an ARO battery). A Hollow Man Missile Launcher costs 1 point more than the Riot, can tank 4 hits before leaving the table (2+2), can be topped up, but has neither MSV nor a good dodge value.
    If you play vanilla, of these I would choose either the Brigada or the Hollow, personally.

    The Sin Eater Observants are a classic for Bakunin and vanilla, being a single guy with Mimetism, BS 13 and full burst in ARO (the HMG is a classic profile), his problem being simply a single wound and no shock inmunity and a relatively low PH (11); his defense is the Burst of his weapons (or distance, if you try the MSR).

    I wouldn't use the Intruder as an ARO piece unless hard pressed for it (that is, he won't be my main ARO piece, possibly not even the third), since while it's a very good hunter, in the defensive role is too expensive and fragile for his cost. The Spekter sniper is more interesting, with Mimetism -6 and BS 12 (I think all other Mimetism + Camo + Infiltration troops are capped at BS11, aside from Aleph's...) and a whopping 9 points more cheap.

    Finally, we reach the area denial position. Here is where the Nomads shine, because we are not talking about killers that need LoF, but tricksters that turn the enemy's advance from a Bltizkrieg to a Takeshi's Castle episode.

    Minelayers, camo troopers that can be deployed outside of our DZ, troops that carry deployables (mines, koalas, pandas, pitchers, repeaters...) or can ruin an alpha striker's day (glue, jammer, EM...), even troops with high PH that can get into melee with an enemy and simply keep him tied down (jaguars, morlocks, Chimera's pupniks...) are tricks of the trade.
    Special mention goes to Zeroes and Tomcats, but hecklers, bandits, moran...
     
  6. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    making 2 or more aro pieces aro at once is almost imposible with intent (if occult deployment is not involved), unless the enemy is in a hurry (lack of orders). Putting several ARO pieces might delay a bit certain attack pieces, but if a player goes with intent (As intented by most players) is almost impossible to really attain it.
     
  7. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    Although that is true in the sense of Active Turn interactions in a vacuum, there are times when you can prepare for that by way of deplyment.

    Simple example: you choose deploy, the guy puts down a good active piece prone in a rooftop ready to engage. You counter-deploy couple jaguars looking at him. Now he needs to mobilize other troops to take at least one jaguar out, or stand up and face double AROs. Or triple ones. It works well to blunt a massive offensive piece.

    With intent it will slice those Jags off? Yes. But hopefully you are getting a speedbump in the way as well, and 2-3 orders having to remove one single Jag so that the main attacker can move is exactly what you need.
     
  8. Alpharious

    Alpharious Member

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    Thank you so much everyone, for those really detailed explanations you have written!

    I was asking mostly about the shooting ARO pieces, as I do feel pretty competent about using guys like Moran's, bandits, zeros and hecklers for area denial.

    I have never really thought much about riot girls and taskmasters as ARO pieces (I mostly have CJC and TJC minis, that is why), but now I am excited to try those out! Also, I tend not to bring specters as snipers, due to their high swc cost, so that's the other thing I would like to try now. Warcor seems a little less useful now, due to the tactical window model limit, but he might be worth it, when you have less than 15 model's and wondering who to bring on a budget.

    Sent from my M2007J3SG using Tapatalk
     
  9. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    In vanilla, putting up a hard shooting defence out side of PF jags and cheap flash pulses (maybe armand?) is largely a waste of resources in my experience as you'll be lucky to waste .5 of an order which is an obscenely unfavourable trade for that 40 something point and 1.5 swc intruder, or 30 ish point HI missile launcher, as the first linked apex gunfighter is going walk out, glance in their general direction and they fall over.

    With vanillia the name of the game is avoidance and force them to come in real real close so they waste orders getting into position to engage need to get through repeaters, koalas, jammers, mines and other camo to fight you while under the effects of spotlight or tangling with cheap chain rifles and other DTWs.

    Once you branch out into sectorials then Hard direct shooting ARO becomes more feasible as fireteams start to push numbers back towards even in that regard.
     
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  10. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I often take a Jag Haris with 2 CR and a faust. They are amazing for their cost. ADHL is what really makes it.

    This is the real answer, don't think of ARO as winning a F2F with a gun on your reactive turn. That's a small part of it and Nomads excel at the other parts.
     
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  11. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    Amazing how people get fixated on the Panzerfaust, manouver to get reaaaaly close but think the Jag has a Chainrifle or shotgun, then at 10in they shoot you and "but they have an ADHL??"

    Yes my friend, they do... and you are in my +3 rangeband now for this linked ADHL...
     
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  12. nazroth

    nazroth 'well known Nomad agitator'

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    Missile Launcher Riotgrrl for long range hard hitting solo ARO. Can Dodge great which is important on an ARO piece (sometimes you'd rather starve orders instead of shooting back against the odds), is 2W, mitigates mimetism, cheap AF. Everything is in place and now is 1,5SWC (used to be 2 which was the only real negative about it). Great thing to field.

    Area denial, midrange, close range - Nomads excel at this. Everything that is not a standard goon will do.
     
  13. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

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    I for one, love spectr snipers, BUT!!!

    Snipers live and die by their range bands, ideally you are shooting them at your opponents - 12, -3 for cover, -6 for TO, -3 for range.

    You need to remember that if you're in your opponents +3 range band, that is a net difference of 6 pips, your opponent will be at -6 overall, -3 for cover, -6 for TO, + 3 for range.

    For what its worth, you're generally safer in the open at your opponents -3 range band, then you are in cover in your opponents good range band. (this is true for most situations, but sniper rifles are expenseive and have very long range bands that you must exploit to get your value).

    So as a general rule you're better off deploying along your back table edge in the open, then you are deploying at the front of your deployment zone in cover. Pick the lanes you cover wisely, and try to exploit your range differential to the maximum effect.

    Spectrs do have infiltration, but I would caution you to avoid using it with a sniper spectr unless there is either an amazing (AMAZING tall, long distance away) sniper nest, or the opportunity for long range AROs diagonally across the table, while being relatively safe from being flanked/in ranged.
     
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  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The idea is less ensuring that there will be an ARO from 2 units, and more trying to force a choice on the opponent: split Burst, spend extra orders, or eat one of the ARO (usually the Flash Pulse). A Speed Bump, like Willen has indicated, since all troops in ARO duty are essentially this (killing the active turn model is a happy accident! XD).

    The 1.5 SWC cost is there for all non-basic weapons. The greatest and ideal (which means you should never find a table with this) deployment position for the Intruder (MSV2 and X-Visor) with Sniper Rifle, for example, is a tower or similar structure that lets you see the opposite corner (there will be shadows), meaning you will go at -3 to hit at worst, regardless of distance, and the enemy will be at 120cm+ (48'' aprox) meaning they need a sniper rifle, Missile Launcher, Flash Pulse, or are forced to dodge, since no other weapons can exceed that distance.
    The warcor is a points filler, and because of his being so disposable, is usually ignored by the enemy players most of the time.

    Yeah, the problem is the Frenzy (losing cover once she has done damage), which is why I mentioned the Brigada and the Spektr. Incidentally, the Brigada is quite close in stats to the Proxy mk4 HRL, and I've used her as a defensive torret for years with great results (granted, the brigada costs about twice), and was hard to take out of the game because of the ARM + cover.
    The 'girl is a good, cheap option, however.

    Imagine how I felt the first time I deployed a Nikoul Ambush Unit... BS 12, 27pts, MSV1, simbiont, viral sniper rifle... and Sapper (the guy carries his own cover!! XD)... yeah, the backline corner is the place for snipers, the same way the center front is for HRL.
     
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  15. Alpharious

    Alpharious Member

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    I wasn't really clear on my statement about Spektr sniper costing too much SWC. What I really meant is that in my opinion the swc is a very limited resources, and I just haven't been willing to spend 1,5 SWC on an ARO piece that just doesn't seem that good in my eyes, and that's the reason I don't take him.
    But! I have considered your tips and I'm rethinking the guy at the moment, want to try him out.

    Sent from my M2007J3SG using Tapatalk
     
  16. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Nomads is uniquely situatated in that we can do both. while you will hardly ever get multiple things shooting in ARO what you can set up is a situation where to engage the linked sniper they will need to also contend with the incoming hack through a nearby repeater and/or a mine or koala going off on them.
     
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  17. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    And if there is a Bandit in ZoC, a Dodge roll that can get you within its sights for a follow-on ARO or Dodge-Engage as well.
     
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  18. 1337Bolshevik

    1337Bolshevik Let them eat repeaters

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    I've found the spekter to be really excellent as you can choose when to reveal him, or whether to reveal at all. Completely legit to wait until the last order or two of a assassination attempt on a important model and have him pop up to foil it. You can also go active turn with them with the help of using long range to -12 your opponent.
     
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  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Well, the important part is that only the Missile Launcher and Neurocinetics ARO pieces are usefull more in ARO than in the active turn. The Spektr sniper can also be used in the Active turn as a hunter, after all.
    Also, in the Active Turn he can be combined with a White Noise from a hacker plus (custodier, interventor, Jazz) to shoot at an enemy non-SS (usually inside a link of 4+) MSV unit to keep imposing his -12 (cover, range, and changing the mimetism mod for a zero visibility one).

    I wouldn't say "uniquely", but for sure is the faction with the most tools to do such moves, making it an easy tactic to include in your lists (other factions can do so with specific units, or simply dragging the units all the way there. Mind you, I mention this more as a warning to all nomad players than a correction.
     
  20. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    So what we're saying is the best Nomad ARO is misdirection, closely followed by an artfully arranged lethal ARO and hack at once.

    The Prowler is decent at a surprise ARO too now, in theory.

    Pupniks dodging into CC around corners are good problems to give an opponent who wants to push at you.
     
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