Some quick ones on Liu Xing and Fireteams

2. In N3, fireteam members couldn't participate in a coordinated order. I can't find anything in the N4 rules that says the same thing. So, I guess you can coordinate some members of the fireteam, and they drop out of the team once they enter suppression but the rest of the team is intact?

That sounds wrong to me. I feel like I'm missing something, probably some rule that prevents fireteam members from participating in coordinated orders. Otherwise you could also use fireteam members in a different coordinated order (say, move+BS attack) and they would stay in the fireteam throughout. But I can't find anything in the rules to prohibit doing that...

 

No. 1.
Rules for MODs in brackets state that using the special skill given will activate the MODs or traits inside the rounded brackets. As such there are no inherent mutual exclusivity between the two so, just like there is no mutual exclusivity between e.g. BS Attack (+1 DAM) and BS Attack (+1 B) on the Blue Wolf, you can choose to use both PH=14 and Explode with the same Combat Jump declaration because the MODs themselves function together.

I don't think there are any examples of MODs that can't stack, so making one would require making a hypothetical situation that doesn't necessarily make sense such as a unit with a skills BS Attack (Stun) and BS Attack (Shock) at the same time. Which, don't get me wrong, would be a pretty spiffy thing on a high-burst gun.

No. 2.
I think it's missing in the wiki, or hard to find.

Rules Annex page 3:
Important
Members of a Fireteam cannot be part of Coordinated Orders.

Also note that the members of the Fireteam would drop out of Suppressive Fire immediately anyway as being part of a Fireteam is part of the cancellation clause for Suppressive Fire state.

 

He's asking whether the entire link would cancel as one member trying to do something makes the rest of them try to activate and declare it even if it's not allowed, that said I don't think it's possible because of the rules annex stating they can't be part of coordinated orders in the first place. You'd have to manually break the troopers out of the link first before they could join a coordinated order.

 

You cannot pick Fireteam members for Coordinated order AT ALL.

If you use a "normal" order to use SupFire, the leader applies it and the link breaks. There is no way to put a non-leader member in SupFire, and as soon as the leader enter SupFire, he drops out of Fireteam, cancelling it.

Edit.
At the start of the order, you can freely cancel the Fireteam. Then your Coordinated Order with ex-fireteam members is fully legal

 

1. Explode is a part of combat jump skill, you can't choose do not use it with Liu Xing if you use Combat Jump. So you have PH=14 AND you make a direct template attack.

2. " FIRETEAMS AND SUPPRESSIVE FIRE STATE :
A Trooper stops being part of a Fireteam if they enter Suppressive Fire State. In addition, a Trooper’s Suppressive Fire State is cancelled when joining a Fireteam."

 

What @tox wrote.

The way Fireteams activate there is no way of not putting leadership of the entire thing and activating everyone before declaring a skill, and adding to that you also can't break individual units out in the active turn (except through breaking coherency) without breaking the entire team.

 

You just wave your hand and say "I cancel the fireteam", and then you remove the team leader token from the board. I feel like "at any time with no cost" is pretty low of a bar.

The main point for this thread is that you have to pay a command token to put a couple models into suppressive, and then you have to pay another command token to re-form the remaining troops as a new fireteam, assuming they're a legal configuration.

 

Fireteam member's cannot be part of Coordinated Orders but still that you can activate one member only with normal order.
Spend an order and put 1 of the fireteam members (who are not the leader) into suppression fire is totaly correct. Fireteam bonuses are recalculate. + "If the Fireteam has not been cancelled, then the Troopers who left will automatically be able to rejoin it if they are in Coherency with the Team Leader during the Order Count step of their next Tactical Phase"(see P8 AnnexN4 FIRETEAM INTEGRITY)

[EDIT] The Fireteam is not automatically cancelled.

 

This is not correct.

When the fireteam member is activated with an order, that member is automatically and obligatorily made leader of the Fireteam prior to declaring the first skill because there are no way to activate a Fireteam member without following the Fireteam rules.

 

Disagree : the Fireteams rules allow to activate the whole team by a simple order, he wrote nowhere that the use of this possibility is mandatory. I make a difference between activating the team (that follows the rules of Annex N4) and activating a trooper (that follows the general rules).

 

All rules are mandatory unless they say otherwise or can be shown not to be applicable.

Besides the very first rule for Fireteam in Active turn is that Fireteams behave differently from other troopers

 

Yes if you choose to activate your "Fireteam", but you don't have to activate it. The right offered by the rule does not deprive you of the opportunity to choose to activate only one trooper IMO.

[EDIT]And the rules incorporate this opportunity (see FIRETEAM INTEGRITY): a member can become a Marker again, a lieutenant can use his personal order, an Irregular Trooper can use his Irregular Order ...

 

What rule do you base the idea that you can choose not to activate the Fireteam when the trooper is part of a Fireteam on? Keeping in mind that you claim that you can activate a trooper individually without having that trooper leave the Fireteam as long as the trooper doesn't declare a skill that kicks them out, and as a consequence if that trooper is the Team Leader they would retain the bonuses even if the rest of the team is not activated.

As for the circumstantial evidence, keep in mind that activation requires the expenditure of an order, expending Irregular or Lieutenant Orders will remove them from the Fireteam, so that makes them fail at step 1. The only Marker state you can enter while in a Fireteam (currently) is Holoecho, which can be activated in other ways.

 

A trooper can enter Suppressive Fire State
"FIRETEAMS AND SUPPRESSIVE FIRE STATE
◼ A Trooper stops being part of a Fireteam if they enter Suppressive Fire State.
In addition, a Trooper’s Suppressive Fire State is cancelled when joining a Fireteam."(P8 AnnexN4)
So he can use an entire order to make something different from the other Team member's
and
No the Team leader would retain the Fireteam bonuses only in case of "Fireteam Activation" (See P6 AnnexN4 "FIRETEAM ORDER : SKILLS CLASSIFICATION"; "SUPPORT SKILLS")

 

Fireteam bonuses don't require all members of the team to be activated and your rules reference does not remove the allowance for the team leader to make use of these bonuses. According to the logic you've presented here, the restrictions given under Fireteam: Active Turn wouldn't apply because you're not activating the Fireteam anyway and there are no key points in that chapter that unlock the ability to use the Automatic Skills gained for being part of a Fireteam of size 3+

I'm not disputing that a trooper part of a Fireteam can declare the Suppressive Fire skill, I'm saying doing so will first make that trooper the leader of the team and then when you declare it it will kick the team's leader out of the Fireteam which causes a cancellation.

 

But then why write "A Trooper stops being part of a Fireteam if they enter Suppressive Fire State." instead of something like "a member of a FT cannot enter SF state (and trying to do so will break the FT)?

 

We may never know - though it's possible that there are planned changes to Fireteams where this distinction is important, possibly because Coordinating Orders with Fireteam members might be possible in the future.

Current Fireteam rules really do feel like they're living on borrowed time, tbh.