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'Look out' clarification

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Leviathan, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    As per Look Out - Infinity (infinitythewiki.com)

    • Allows all other Troopers of the same player to modify their LoF without displacing, if the player so chooses. This will be considered as if the Troopers modifying their LoF had declared an ARO.
    • This modification to the LoF is made through a Normal or Face to Face Dodge (PH-3) Roll. The Face to Face Roll is only made in case that the alerted Trooper is the Active Trooper's target.

    What actual order/skill are those troopers who just got an ARO performing?

    Is it a Dodge? In which case, its a skill with the movement label that allows them to go prone or stand up?
    Or is it something else?
     
  2. Mcgreag

    Mcgreag Well-Known Member

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    It's a Dodge with the stipulation that you are not allowed to displace the model. You are still doing a 0" move so you should be able to go Prone or Stand up.
     
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  3. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    I think this is correct, and also....

    It's notable that the rules really go out of their way to say that the troopers responding to Look Out! aren't actually declaring a Dodge ARO, if they're just declaring a special form of Dodge ARO. They're "modifying their LoF," "as if the Troopers modifying their LoF had declared an ARO," "through a...Dodge (PH -3) Roll." The example says that the Dodge also can allow the trooper to avoid an incoming attack, which the actual Look Out! rule does not specify.

    It's a bit weird that they didn't just go with something like:
    • Allied troopers may immediately declare a Dodge ARO even if they do not have LoF to the active trooper.
    • This special use of the Dodge skill does not permit troopers who declare it to displace, but they may modify their LoF and perform the other functions of Dodge.
    • Troopers declaring Dodge as a result of the Look Out! skill suffer a -3 MOD to their PH roll when resolving this Dodge.
     
  4. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Prone is activated or cancelled by performing or declaring a Skill with the Movement label.

    Look Out allows a troop to perform an ARO by making a Dodge(-3) roll, but I don't read that as meaning that the troop declares or performs the Dodge skill. I read it as declaring and performing an unnamed skill which involves making a Dodge roll. (Much like the Camouflage skill allows a troop to perform an unnamed whole order skill to enter the Camo state.)

    But I might be influenced by the fact that it's a direct copy of the Change Facing skill from N3, which didn't allow entering or cancelling Prone.
     
  5. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    This was my thinking too at first, but the example in the book says that this form of Dodge can also cancel attacks if the trooper using it is the target of an attack, and the rule text calls out that it becomes a FtF roll.

    I have further questions like "can I use this Dodge to break out of IMM-A?" which right now I'm assuming the answer to is "yes, this counts as a normal Dodge except you can't move the model in any way except rotating/standing/dropping prone." But if this gets a different official ruling I would understand why.

    I also wonder what exactly "modify LoF" means; does that encompass dropping prone or standing up, in addition to changing facing?

    (Emphasis mine, this is the mention of negating attacks.)
     
  6. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Huh. Here's a related question which may be relevant. Suppose I declare a Look Out LoF-changing ARO and the active trooper declares a hacking attack against me. (The attack is through a repeater to avoid any complications from being in ZoC).

    The Look Out bullet reads "This modification to the LoF is made through a Normal or Face to Face Dodge (PH-3) Roll. The Face to Face Roll is only made in case that the alerted Trooper is the Active Trooper's target."

    In this case, the alerted trooper is the Active Trooper's target. Does this mean that the roll is Face to Face, and if I win I cancel the hacking attack and can also change my facing?

    RAW would appear to be yes, but it's hard to swallow...
     
  7. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    I suspect this is a case of the original rule needing to have been something like "...in case that the alerted Trooper is the Active Trooper's target and the Active Trooper is using a skill, weapon, or equipment that can be face to faced with Dodge."

    Common sense dictates that the otherwise fairly universal "if you aren't affecting each other it's a normal roll" applies because of Dodge's fourth bullet about not allowing the trooper to evade hacking or comms attacks. Otherwise the situation is:

    Hacker wins FtF: Reactive trooper is affected by hacking and fails to dodge/change LoF.
    Reactive trooper wins FtF: Hacking attack is applied despite losing FtF, dodge/change LoF happens per Look Out! rules.

    That's functionally two normal rolls, except the active turn hacker somehow has the ability to mess up the Dodge roll; pretty sure that falls outside any RAI compared to the rest of the ruleset.
     
  8. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Yeah, its clear as mud, thats why i put the question as "what skill is actually being used"
     
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