1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Hacking and OSS

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by yoink101, Nov 30, 2020.

  1. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    616
    In N3, I found that OSS dominated the hacking scene. Between a linked Deva, a Danavas, the Asura, a Naga, a post human, there were a lot of options that were really good. The Asura still holds a strong place the post human and naga are still solid.

    The Danavas lost maestro and +1 burst on oblivion is...not equivalent. Not to mention the loss of her HD+.

    The Deva lost lightning, which was significant for an assault hacker. He could punch back at other hackers, and linked, even a KHD had a hard time getting past sixth sense and the -6.

    Now, with all of those hacking bonuses gone. Plus the fact that OSS is actually light on repeaters (Danavas is the only pitcher and ALEPH combat remotes are the only combat remotes to lack repeaters) plus the complete lack of tinbots with deflector, OSS feels...lacking in the hacking department. For an army with hackable line infantry, this can make forward movement a significant challenge.

    Am I misreading something? What do you do to bring the hacking a-game for OSS?
     
    ZlaKhon and Devil_Tiger like this.
  2. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2019
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    494
    No, I've noticed the hacking issues too.
    The Rudras and Danavas do have a repeater, so those two combat remotes can be pushed froward to set up hacking zones while doing their other jobs (Shooting and sensor, respectively). But the lack of pitchers has hurt, and I've actually looked at converting a hacking list to vanilla to get the additional hacking support.
    I do also still like Shakti as a strong KHD, especially if the Asura is too costly.

    Weirdly, our anti-hacking strengths are that the Yadu and Dart are unhackable assault pieces, so we can ignore hacking instead of countering it.
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  3. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    363
    ALEPH having a problem setting up a repeater network has been an issue for a while. Less so now in Vanilla since Scylla got her pitcher. We do lack infiltrator options with repeaters, especially with all the TAG/HI alpha strike lists that's been going around. Going second is scary.

    The Danavas still has her HD+. While we lost Maestro, so did everyone else. Burst 3 Oblivion is still a major threat, especially with the increase in HI and TAGs with high BTS that Oblivion can punch through. The whole deal with placing repeaters and spotlighting as ARO against what's normally non-hackable targets is also super strong right now, so she's amazing to have around.

    I don't feel the Deva is extra vulnerable against enemy hackers. She can fight back with Oblivion or Carbonite and has great willpower and NWI. She's worth it just to have sixth sense for your Danavas repeater coverage, but not a choice I often bring to my core personally. Other factions has much more vulnerable core link hackers.
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  4. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    671
    I don't see too many options.
    • Tinbot usually are the best for F2F rolls. (none in OSS)
    • Pitchers give a single models the best coverage. (only Danavas)
    • Deployable repeaters give HDs extended cover from without being always active, best on non-hackers that infiltrate. (none in OSS)
    • Repeaters are a double edged sword, always active and can be used as an attack vector by opponents HDs. Only take them if you have 0 or 2+ hackers. (only Rudas is notable).
    If you want to have just 1 hacker in your list for utility/ARO I would go with Danavas or Proxy Mk1. Danavas is more flexible with pitcher and program options. While the Proxy is very cheap and semi-disposable. Both offer good stats (WIP 15 & BTS 3).

    If you want a single hacker bully, then Assura is the only choice. Highest stats I know of on a hacker (Wip 15 & BTS 6), with very nasty programs.

    But having a list with the intent on controlling the board via hacking, then I don't see OSS being a good choice. For an enhanced hacking plan, I would probably bring Danavas & Proxy Mk1 in the same list, along with Rudas. Combining launching mines and hacking is a different approach. Use the mine launcher to threaten a hacker then move the Rudas into range. The rudas has BTS6 & 2 STR so it can take a hacking hit.
    • If your opponent hacks your Rudas when it moves into range, he get the mine going off on him.
    • If they idled & you hack via Rudas's repeater, your opponent has multiple bad choices.
      • Idle and take a free hack
      • ARO (hacks or reset), then take the mines damage
      • Dodge the mine, and take the free hacking attack.
     
    RolandTHTG and Iver like this.
  5. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    371
    I am surprised by the lack of excitement.
    How many pitchers do you need to be satisfied?
    Danavas has AVA 3 and is our cheapest Hacker option - and she has a HD+

    I don't see any problems at all.... or did I miss an upgrade of army7?! O.O'
     
  6. SpectralOwl

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,891
    Likes Received:
    3,130
    A lack of midfield Repeater support on deployment and no Tinbots is a pretty big deal for such a Hacking-vulnerable Sectorial. Pitcher presence and Hacking utility are quite good, and offensively OSS Hacking is excellent, but they have severe problems on the defensive- a simple Tinbot(-3) guarding a Hacker or the presence of an enemy Pitcher turns the elite Deva Hacker into a slightly-more-durable Fusilier, and all the Asura's defenses won't help against Oblivion one bit. I've found the Dasyu Hackers to be a potent tool in the OSS Hacking game due to the unique-in-faction ability to pick their own fights.
     
    RolandTHTG likes this.
  7. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    371
    Well, that is something I can relate to. And it definitely makes a big difference, if there is "only" a Naga Hacker sitting in the middle of everything or if it is a repeater...
    Thank you for your clarification.
     
  8. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    1,201
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    As mentioned before: The combat rem of OSS, the Rudra, has a repeater. Danavas still have HD+. The poor repeater network seems to be a design choice. We have to place hackers in the midfiled (we can have a total of 7 infiltrating hackers ... theoreticaly). The weak point are the Daikinis. Sure it would be nice to have a Tinbot here, but it seems, we have to life that way. If you want a form of counter hacking in the Dakini FT, then take a Deva. This could be expensive. Normaly I do three Dakinis, a MSV Deva and CSU. Best solution for Dakinis is the EVO with fairydust.

    Hacking in N4 is all about choices. You have to make a choice if you want killing, harassing or protection. If you choose all, it will get expensive.

    Genral I feel OSS ist strong in hacking, not Nomads-strong and versatile but still strong.
     
    #8 archon, Nov 30, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
    Ashtaroth and Daniel Darko like this.
  9. Sigeric

    Sigeric Irregular WB

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2020
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    111
    I mean, if your faction has HD+ devices, you are heavily encouraged to include one in your lists. White noise can be a lifesaver against strong ARO pieces with MSV: Atalanta, sniper Bolt, sniper Hortlak, missle launcher Grrl, etc.

    OSS is good at hacking, but not "Nomad good". I would put them at the same level of Onyx and slightly over Hassassin in that regard. The weak point would be repeater coverage, yes.

    I guess their design choice is on the lines of "only one faction get all the goodies for a certain aspect of the game", the rest have at least one shortcomings.
     
  10. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    313
    I mean... the idea that a trooper who is a self-sufficient hacking network with marker state to safely leave the DZ and establish said network and can also block incoming fire for herself and other troops and packs a whopping WIP 15 being lackluster is a bit....... wat???
     
  11. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,420
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    Tinbot: Only Hector has one, but frankly, there is no HI links on Aleph outside of the Greeks anyway.

    Pitcher: Danavas (22pts 0.5 SWC AVA 3), sadly on BS11 unlinkable, but H+

    Repeater: Daleth (17pts specialists remote AVA 2), Lamedh (7pts basic flashbot AVA 2), Probots (8pts baggage AVA 2 with EVO option at 15 + 0.5SWC), Rudras (gunner robot BS 12 and 2W with BTS 6, 38/40pts AVA 2)

    Hackers: Dasyu (TO AVA 3), Nagas (camo AVA 3), Devas (NWI WIP 15 BTS 3 AVA 5), Posthumans (Mk1, Mk2), Yadu (Veteran WIP 14 BTS 3 AVA 5), All expensive aside from the posthumans (cost 28+ pts), all have KHD option but for the Posthumans.
    KHD: ad the Apsaras (19pts, AVA 2, WP 14 BTS 3, unlikely to see both as KHD, but possible if there is no bot to buff in the list)

    Hacker plus: Danavas, and Asuras (AVA 4 65/69 pts with WIP 15 and BTS 6 on a HI that can get Fairy Dust bonuses)

    Sure, the repeater network is hard to deploy outside of our DZ and the EVO Vs Apsaras limits the buffs we will use (but we can White-Noise the DZ with ease). However, in Vanilla:

    Pitchers: 2 Danavas, Scylla and Thamirys

    Repeater: same as in OSS, plus Scylla's bots

    Deployable Repeater: a Rem Racer (quite easy to deploy one of the 12pts profiles)

    Hacker: add Myrmidons (AVA 5) in exchage from -1 AVA to all OSS (Yadu goes down to AVA 2), add Ekdromoi (stealth AD hacker), Thamirys and Scylla. Well, and a possible Rem Racer, which at least is BTS 6 WIP 13.

    KHD: options go down from OSS, 1 Apsaras, 2 Yadus, 4 Devas, 2 Nagas and 2 Dasyus.

    Hacker plus: 2 asuras and 2 Danavas. Effectively, -1 Danavas because it's quite hard to deploy more than 2 Asuras in a list.

    Bottom line: if you want to play the Pitcher game, go Vanilla (thamirys and Scylla shoot better than the Danavas, and are better at self-defense with Zero Pain and the ECM -3 hacking, respectively, with similar BTS to the Danavas, if worst WIP). Otherwise, I see little difference between OSS and Vanilla, aside from the Sixth Sense a hypothetical Deva hacker/KHD would have inside a Fireteam Core, and it will only negate the Surprise attack.
     
    Iver, Daniel Darko and RolandTHTG like this.
  12. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    363
    I'd really like some more defensive hacker options. I've begun fitting two naga hackers into a lot of my lists to try and desperately prevent a TAG from running jollily across the table and gunning down two thirds of my list before I get my first turn.
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  13. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    616
    Somehow I missed the Danavas. An HD+ is solid, especially for her cost.

    I like the Rudra. When I referred to attack remotes above, I was thinking Dakini and Garuda. As both are remotes, but lack any kind of repeaters or hacking defense.

    I think ALEPH has a ton of strong individual units. Like I mentioned earlier, the Asura is great. Other than the anathematic, I’d rate her as one of the most potent and versatile hackers in the game.

    What doesn’t make sense to me is ALEPH’s lack of synergy. The core fireteam is dakinis, but they don’t have any access to a tinbot? Repeater networks are a great way to defend your hackers and hackable targets, but nothing in the army has deployable repeaters, much less minelayer with those repeaters.

    When looking at OSS next to IA or Onyx, both of which bring solid hackers, hackable core teams, and a tinbot to bolster their defense. I mean, the Haidao khd (and the Tian Guo) has the single best mod stacking of any hacker in the game. It just feels like a hole in OSS’s plan. It wasn’t a problem in N3 because of lightning and maestro on the Deva and Danavas. Now though, a killer hacker can dismantle OSS’s hacking defense and open up their dakinis with ease.
     
  14. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    363
    I think that's a tradeoff.

    IA pay premium for expensive HI links that get that tinbot. Dakini are very cheap mobile powerhouses.

    OCF's robot link has very limited access to engineer support as only doctor worm has that rule. They're pretty much forced to stay in a defensive role since their support can't move with them. OSS has a plethora of good engineers, one of them being able to link with them.

    It's a different sort of defense, but if a Dakini gets Carbonited Trish can easily get it fixed.
     
  15. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    313
    Trish? Aren't you forgetting about best girl Parvati?
     
    Devil_Tiger likes this.
  16. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    363
    Parvati's amazing, but I feel she's a bit overkill in a Dakini core. She can use her doctor skill on Devas but those are NWI so they're rarely wounded in our own turn in my experience. I'd rather pay for Trish and save the points.
     
  17. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2019
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    494
    I'll admit that I never thought of Dakini as "attack" remotes, I've always used them in a defensive core link. If it does move out late game, it's with the MSV deva as spearhead, and usually most of the Dakinis gone. (MSV Deva, CSU, and maybe paramedic or trisha are what seem to survive to late game.) In addition, in the deployment zone there's usually a repeater around, so I've never thought of them as uncovered, it's the forward projection of repeater networks that I've struggled with.

    I also agree that Trish is the good dakini baby sitter. Parvati synergizes better with a rudras and asura or shakti haris pushing forward.
     
  18. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    363
    While they're good enough as a defensive unit, they're one of the rare core links i'd actually run upfield. Move 6-4 helps the whole unit get around, and the HMG supported by an Apsara and a Probot just makes anything disappear. They're a terrifying alpha strike that's hard to dislodge in active turn when your good guns are shot down.
     
  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,420
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    Frankly, the Dakini would need a Haris option to really shine. As it is, they are good enough as solo attack platforms, but as defensive units they are SWC sinks. Sure, mimetic Sniper on one hand and the missile launcher remote on the other can really prepare a defensive fireteam, but I'm more attracted to the TR bot with Apsaras support, frankly.

    Incidentally, if the Apsaras was still capable of boosting three dakinis in the same fireteam at once, I'd say it would be ok to be limited on hacking, but as it is... In N3 OSS was a "buff your remotes" playstile, that now is no longer possible due to the changes to hacking devices... Maybe if we got OSS exclusive profiles with EVO profile and some decent upgrades...
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  20. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    313
    If you move the link up, how is having a 2STR Doctor+Engineer bad? She'll do a ton of missions with bonuses, a ton of classifieds and not only she can take care of your Dakinis and Devas, but she can also help your Darts, Proxys and what not you have in the frontlines still standing. Once she gets to center table it's very hard to win vs OSS on attrition.
     
    Daniel Darko likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation