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N4 list talk

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by OrderMonkey, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    Let's talk about lists, my fellow vegetables!

    Yesterday, I was able to make my first N4 game with Tohaa (after finally having internet again) and I had a blast.
    We were playing Highly Classified, a mission Tohaa usually struggles a lot.
    This is what I came up with:

    Highly classified
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]3
    SUKEUL (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, D-Charges ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    TAQEUL (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Viral Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Pheroware Tactics: Endgame, Pheroware Tactics: Mirrorball / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 39)
    KAMAEL (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    DRAAL (Minelayer) AP Marksman Rifle, D-Charges, Shock Mines / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 40)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    JAAN STAAR Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Viral Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1 | 31)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 8)
    DIPLOMATIC (CC Attack [-3], Specialist Operative]) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, Pheroware Tactics: Eraser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    KAMAEL (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    NIKOUL (Minelayer) VIRAL Sniper Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    The game ended in a draw as my opponent and I both fulfilled 4 of the 5 Classified Objectives but we both were having a blast. He was playing NCA.

    First things first: Holding back a Kaeltar and Jaan Staar to suit him up with a Mate and a Bomb is downright dirty. I pumped all my orders into Jaan Star and took my opponents Core link team apart, nearly putting him into LoL (I chose the wrong Fusilier to kill).
    I am stoked to learn more about the proper use of impersonators. In N3 I rarely used them because I was one of those pesky Makaul-spamming melee Tohaa players. No regrets there, though.

    I am really happy how the list played out and don't know what I'd playing Highly Classified again.

    What about you guys? Any suggestions? Show off the lists you are most confident in and discuss them!
     
    ChoTimberwolf likes this.
  2. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Sounds awesome and yeah being able to hold 2 back is pretty damn sweet, looking forward to my games hopefully I get to play soon :)
     
  3. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Haven't tried Tohaa in N4 yet, here's something I came up with. Worse in ITS12 for sure for the lack of LI protection.



    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2
    TAQEUL (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Viral Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Pheroware Tactics: Endgame, Pheroware Tactics: Mirrorball / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 41)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse ( | 2x SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 28)
    SUKEUL Heavy Machine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    GORGOS AP Spitfire, Flammenspeer, Pulzar / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (1.5 | 74)
    [​IMG] CHAKSA PERIPHERAL A Light Shotgun, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (- | 7)
    IGAO Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Pheroware Tactics: Mirrorball / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0.5 | 28)
    JAAN STAAR Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Viral Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1 | 31)
    SAKIEL Combi Rifle, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 22)
    6 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
  4. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    How are you planning to organize the Triads?
    Remember that the Taqeul is now linkable, so you might or not might be able to use the extra Lt.Order depending on how you play it.
     
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  5. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Basically as shown, so triads going Taq + Mak + Kae // Suk + Kae + Mak.

    If I'd want to make use of the two Lt Orders, I'd run Taq alone (IIRC he can't fuel a fireteam with LT orders?) and swap Sakiel instead.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  6. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    one sec. how can we keep 2 minis on hold ? Is the rule changed?
     
  7. Hannibaliafun

    Hannibaliafun Active Member

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    If you are going first you can spend one command token to keep two models in reserve.
     
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  8. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Got my Nomads tournament tomorrow, then its right into Tohaa. My first list will be essentially an update to what I mostly used to play, though now definitely committed to adding symbiobombs.

    Tohaa Draft (need anti-ARM)
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 33)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)

    SUKEUL Heavy Machine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)
    SAKIEL (Paramedic) Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 13)

    JAAN STAAR Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Viral Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1 | 31)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    DIPLOMATIC (CC Attack [-3], Specialist Operative]) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, Pheroware Tactics: Eraser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    SAKIEL Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 22)
    SAKIEL (Lieutenant) Viral Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)


    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Green team is an ARO triad, that contains my CoC. Force a sweeper into position, get shot, survive and go prone, enjoy the salty tears. The Kaeltar bomber is a space filler, needed a place to put it so just slapped it in here. Been a while since I've played Tohaa seriously, so uncertain if I want this team in group one or group two.

    Red team is the primary sweeper and core team of the list, with the secondary being the Gao-Rael but I tend to go for eclipse to bypass problem AROs. Contains anti-ARM tech in the EM grenades, the D-charges and the Makaul, all good stuff but short ranged.

    Blue team is speculative, been a while since I used a Sakiel triad but I like the idea of the viral combi EM grenadier and another vector for the Makaul. Uncertain whether this team stays in group two or if the ARO team moves here - either having a seperate pool of orders for it, or giving access to ten orders and having to share with red team.

    Two clipsos was my go-to for generic ITS missions, probably still just as good as before. Jaan is there for if you have to go first in a mission that favors second, and the new shenanigans with bombs and mates on this guy look gross but I was running him even without that (any mine impersonator is fantastic IMO)

    This list currently lacks enough anti-armor for the new meta, but I need to just play some tohaa again and get a feel for it before making changes in that regard. I'm not certain how Tohaa is going to play that, we were always a melee faction for killing TAGs and such but thats harder with 15 orders plus the TAGs are cheaper and more plentiful. Might end up running the Sukuel LT or AP Draal but those end up falling short against some of the -6 TAGs so it could be better to just commit to melee and make sure you have the tools to do it well.
     
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  9. Monster

    Monster Well-Known Member

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    gyEFdG9oYWELQmlvdGVjaCB1aGGBLAIBCQGCzwEEAAKChgEFAAOCjQEBAASChwGIwwAFgxYBi94ABoKNAQEAB4KHAYjCAAiDFgGL4QAJgo0BAQACBgGCzwEDAAKCiAGIxwADgo0BAQAEhRgBAQAFgo0BAQAGgo0BAQA=

    this is something im gonna run for biotechvore soon it uses the some of the best things about tohaa and obliterates you with Them
     
  10. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    At least for me, your code is not working :/
     
  11. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    For me its working and list looks like fun
     
  12. Chickenprawn

    Chickenprawn Member

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    I had a crack with this list in 3 of the 4 rounds of a local 18 man tournament on the weekend. I used it for Countermeasures, Supplies and Supremacy.

    Having the Taqeul run interference for the hacker is something I hadn't thought of. I completed 3 hacking classifieds in Countermeasures!

    I will post the other list I ran for Frostbyte when I'm at a PC.
     
  13. Khalipo

    Khalipo Well-Known Member

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    How the nikoul in this über-offensive Meta doing?
     
  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    I like it. It's an extremely effective way to waste a few orders while keeping your own order pool intact by gutsing prone when you get a chance.

    Also, sapper snipers can outrange some of the superheavy HMGs in the meta.
     
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  15. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    It's nice to see my list being played, hope you did well with it!

    As far as the Nikoul goes, it is still my go to Sniper, like it was in N3. It's lost the Stratuscloud interaction but benefits heaviliy from the overall buffs to MSV1.
    Especially in missions with localized decompression, where you put down two saturation zones before the game, linked snipers lose a lot of value.
     
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  16. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Can someone elaborate on this? I've heard mentions of the aggressive meta-shift but it hasn't materialized where I play. Losing orders and loss of spam has generally decreased the amount of attacking I've seen. I've even started choosing second turn for missions and having to deploy first, which used to be unthinkable.

    Mostly seen more TAGs (not necessarily good "attackers"), more Hacking (really stops TAGs from attacking and many of the good attack pieces), and more of that goddamn missile bot
     
  17. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    It has more to do with how many orders you can put in one group now. At the most extreme, an Avatar packs 4 orders (Regular, Tac Aware, 2 LT) into one trooper slot. Before, even if you wanted to play spammy, the actual number of orders you could commit to one model was maybe 10. But with the proliferation of extra Lt orders on TAGs, and TAGs being more survivable with crit changes, lists that are designed around committing 11-14 orders to a Tikbalang, Marut, Sphinx, or Avatar are going to become much more popular.

    Teslarod's writeup is probably the most complete summary of the issues.
     
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