I completely agree. Two years ago, it might have been a bit much. But when everyone and their mother has msv2 snipers linked to 10-12 point line infantry with an HI feuerbach attached, I don’t think four high statted, appropriately priced models is over powered in any way.
Honestly this isn't being fair. Does the Update make SP the best thing ever? No Does the Update make SP significantly more competetive than and of N3? Heck yes. Is this the final form of SP for N4? Absolutely not, it's the barebones provisional N4 Update till they get rereleased with a book somewhere down the line. Do I believe the eventual full Update will be everything we wish for? No that's unlikely given the recent track record. But we can expect at least another decent improvement. The Characters are by far the strongest pieces in there. Not trying to make as many of them fit in there as you can is a mistake. Getting riled up about not having the option to relink after your characters are dead or shooting yourself in the foot and taking less characters doesn't seem worthwhile. Enomotarchos was out in September. Pretty much a straight port from how it worked in N3. CB stated that Fireteams in particular weren't really updated and are subject to a later review.
Oh SP is most definitely better now. We have better and more affordable ranged ARO, a couple actual good midfield pieces, a much improved hacking game, and amazing jump troopers. People are mostly salty over being handed a shiny new great option and then see it taken away. People were gonna take characters in Myrmidon links anyhow, but it was nice to not have to invest the extra points in Thrasymedes or Nesaie Alke for Thoras so we could afford more of our cool active powerhouses. It's only a question of 10-15 points per link though so it's not super worth the outrage.
I just don´t understand why they don´t simply make enomotarchos more like triads, and make the distinction that enomotarchos links require a character (or a wildcard) in order to be initially formed. There, much simpler, more intuitive, and gives SP a lot of flexibility while still having the "hero tax".
maybe because they should not be as versatile as triads. They are 4-man instead of 3 after all. Also, I don't see the problem, some characters got wildcard, only with that, opens some new options, while not losing anything from before. And we know that fireteam rules will be changed in a near future
So I had a great game of Mindwipe against O-12 last night, the Steel Phalanx definitely still brings the pain. While writing my list, I had some thoughts though about Enomotarchos going back to requiring characters. At first I was thrilled with the skill being on all the regular troopers, but then I started writing lists as if that was the case. I think if Thorakitai and Myrmidons didn't need characters, you'd see a LOT of boring MSU spam lists, and fewer characters that make Steel unique. If you could spend a mere 48 points to get a 3-man unit of Myrmidons on the table (or 62/1 with a spitfire), it would be hard a lot of time to double that cost to add a character. People would bend towards efficiency and Steel would become a pretty boring army. Similar issue with Thorakitai, writing my list for Mind Wipe, the first thing I did was take a 48 point unit of SMGs to provide orders and guard the servers. To me, what makes Steel Phalanx feel so rad is that each unit is a character and their entourage. This is even in the name of their Fireteams, Enomotarchos. An Enomotarch is the leader of a Enomoty, which is a small oath-bound band of soldiers. So yeah, it seemed neat at first, but now that I've had a chance to think on it and write some lists (and then play a game without it), I'm happy for it to be how it was originally.
My bad, then :( Yeah, well, there is a single Thorakitai character at this moment, Alke. And I had to suffer more than one campaign not being able to deploy heroes because my opponents were all CA, and a hero lost was so for all the players. Thrasymedes is Wildcard, same as Acmon. So if he can provide the Enomotarcos to a Thorakitai or a myrmidon link, so can Acmon and Hector. This looks even less coherent to me, frankly. And if the cost was the problem, adding an Enomotarchos profile to the Thorakitai was the way to go, since adding more Thorakitai characters would bloat the sectorial. The problem is quite simple. Not being able to make a 3 Enomotarchos and at least 1 support agema list. Sure, you can limit yourself to 3-man links, but frankly, that would be the Tohaa's shtick... The thorakitai link will average 16pts per non-hero (yeah, there can be a feuerbach, or an HMG, but you can cheap that one with the FO). Alké taxes 9 points over that, and Thrasimedes and Acmon almost double that cost. My position is that, while the Myrmidons don't really need to have Enomotarchos by themselves (at the very least, the Myrmidon Officer provides a non-hero option), the Thorakitai need a linking option that does not mean wasting half their cost.
Yeah, in the end it's not a disaster for Myrmidons. They always had a wide range of Enomotarchos options, many of which you will want to run. Adding Enomotarchos to Myrmidons so they could form up without a "character" was nice, but losing it's fine. But the Thorakitai have always been desperately starved for viable leaders, and with the dubious wording on many of the Wildcards (why do some "counts as" to lead teams if ones without that can form the team anyway?) possibly only have Alke. I stand by my previous position 'though. Regardless of the intent, once Enomotarchos went on the basic Myrmidons and Thorakitai profiles the die was cast. Taking it away afterwards was a TERRIBLE mistake and that decision should be reversed immediately.
I've got to agree with the Admiral. Adding wildcard got me excited about actually playing the Steel Phalanx I've been collecting for 5 years (when I play Aleph I usually end up with vanilla or OSS). I played game just after the rules came out and had a blast. Nothing felt OP on the change. I've always struggled with Thorakitai as I'm not a big fan of either of the characters which could go with them. We still need officers for Lieutenant and most of our (non thora) specialists so this just added list flexibility. Really like the changes we got, but teasing us with this (albeit accidentally) then taking it away has really killed my enthusiasm. This is worse than the time they accidentally gave PanO regular smoke.
There are 4 characters that can form Enomotarchos with Thorakitai: Alke, Acmon, Hector and Thrasymedes. That doesn't seem very starved. The reason for the difference between "counts as" and "wildcard" is specifically so they can form a valid Enomotarchos with multiple types of unit, Hector could do this previously, and still does but with more simplified wording. Alke gaining a cheaper, Damage 14 MULTI rifle option is probably my favorite change for Thorakitai honestly. Now you can take her (who also has NCO) without paying SWC to take an Enomotarchos, freeing up Thrasymedes to infiltrate.
Is that confirmed or assumed? It’s the assumption I’m operating with and I like it. While it’s not the flexibility and savings of a characterless Thorakitae team, having wild cards is great. It opens up some very cool options. I’m especially eying Acmon to duo with Achilles.
All wildcards except Hippolyta has the Enomotarchos rule and can thus start a Thorakitai link by essentially taking the Special Fireteam containing Alkè and replacing her rather than one of the Thorakitai. It's a bit of a weird unintuitive workaround but that's how it works now.
I'm gonna try and make this the last I comment on this issue here, and try and explain as well as I can what my problems with it that don't have to do with game balance or anything like that. The first issue is how this is reviving the archaic and confusing way of making fireteams in N3 with units having Fireteam profiles. It is clunky and unintuitive, especially for Myrmidons who are listed as being able to form an Enomotarchos, but all the key profiles necessary to actually forming the fireteam are in completely different list entries. Whereas in general for all units the process is straightforward, Myrmidons and Thorakitai are the only ones left in this way. While I am sure all of us who are talking in this thread know how things were done in N3 and as such have no real problems coming to grips with this, I don't think rules should be written with the intention that veterans should be able to understand. This is why I would have preferred a special Fireteam instead, this would have made the intention clearer and this is already in widespread use. Will people be confused by this? Yes, but people will be confused by how the rules are written in the existing case as well, and it would still be far easier to understand than some other fire teams in SP (I'm looking at you Achilles and Wildcards). The second issue is how this shows CBs complete lack of communication. No matter if the ninja fix was intentional or not (and everything points to it being intentional) CB has screwed up at least once. Either by releasing an unintended change that shatters what is supposed to be one of the defining characteristics of the Sectorial, or by removing an intended change to the sectorial. If the change back to the N3 situation was intended it is more egregious that it was a silent fix. This really shows the weakness of the way ARMY 7 works and undermines its reliability, as changes are not logged or explained anywhere. At this point we are still not sure if this an intentional change, since CB has not said a peep about it. Now I'm gonna go back to my daily life of studies and trying to figure out if I would ever bring any other Myrmidon other than the chain or possibly the Spitfire in a list, if I should bother adding a fourth member to the teams or just use them as multiple harises and if I should even bother painting up my thoras or if I should fully commit my Lhost's heart and soul to OSS.
The most egregious part of it is that there is a log of changes... that CB stopped mantaining weeks ago; they started doing so after agreeint to, so... It is "starved" because, of those 4, only Alké is a Thorakite, and thus a Thorakite character. As for the other three... if they are able to provide Enomotarchos to a Thorakite fireteam, they can do so to a Myrmidon one too. Thrasymedes: ex-myrmidon who, bored of Goldilocks and tired of wasting good LGL ammo on lhosts that were replaced in half a day (but half a day of peace), left on his own and had no problem commandeering Thoras (now, commandeers anything). Acmon: Dactyls sergeant... Hector: Homerid champion, which is not, in any case, a Thorakite.
Could be nice with a Thorakite character that supported the role of backline support, or with a long-range gun. Heck, Thamyris may be an Aoidos, but he'd be an excellent addition to a Thora link. Actually bring something relevant in a linked pitcher. Would make him see a table once in a while.
Unfortunately, as I also never have gotten a response to why Hyppolyta is no longer in Vanilla Aleph, after being there in N3, I suspect that the Enomotarchos changes will be a further bad CB communication episode.
Hello guys, The Thorakitai and the Myrmidons with no Fireteam: Enomotarchos skill are correct. BUT, the team is looking for an alternative for the Thorakitai, and will tell in the coming days :) Also, Hyppolyta must be in vanilla ALEPH and will be added back in a upcoming update. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
That's great to hear. Excited to see what you'll do to help our little Thora friends. By chance, is it on purpose that Hippolyta is the only wildcard who can't start a Enomotarchos on her own?
Thank you for the response Koni! Looking forward to running her soon. I think the fact that She's an Amazon (the second after Penthesilea) means that there's some background Amazon organization CB hasn't expanded on, and so they don't currently view her as a fireteam leader the way the other officers and NCOs are.
