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CHA in N4 speculation/suggestions

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by cazboab, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. Duringhzar

    Duringhzar Active Member

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    Well ... Caledonia finally playable, what to say about it ... I have many mixed feelings. On the one hand,

    let's start with the Mormaer ... I love that +2 damage and that he has AP in all his weapons makes him great, I really like that, it gives the troop charisma. Giving him a Chain colt and heavy pistol ... 10/10, but I think the biggest beneficiary is the T2 Rifle with X visor and NCO (one of the things that I personally asked for the Mormaer) but ... it still is dogged, and although critical immunity is cool ... I'd rather see him with AP immunity, that would make him a scary being at the table but ... no. I was satisfied with not giving him wildcard and only NWI, but ...

    The Greys ... I really like their drop in points, that of the T2 shotgun for 20 points seems to me a simple marvel, the HMG ... good drop in points but unjustified, they have taken AP from their weapon and only have given +1 to damage, I think it should be even cheaper (23 points rifle t2 25 points hmg ap) with the ... it bothers me that it does not have NWI but ... if it did the Mormaer could come to understand that he does not I had it, that was that reserved for the Caledonian elite, it could be something that I understood, I would not like it but if I would accept, the good part besides its cheaper is that you can put the flocks you want with the volunteer, not being limited only to 1 , what you can do ... interesting

    Isobel and Cadin wildcards, nothing to object to, nothing to complain about, it was what I was asking for, Isobel hacker and profile combination 10/10

    Wulvers ... I was expecting the MA1, it was something that I said could happen to them, with the NBW they continue to make terrifying troops in CC especially against martial artists, improving in that aspect with a surprise +1 to the damage to CC, leaving their AP weapons + Shock (like that of the SAS) in damage 16. Interesting and pleasant point drop, light shotgun to the profile with T2 Rifle (I think it's great) with the only complaint that they still don't have smoke grenades ... but. .. the big surprise ... the big and pleasant surprise ... his profile with Spitfire AP ... oh my god what a wonder, what joy I got when I saw him, for the record that I liked the MK12 and I like but ... no color, + 1st and AP ammo just for being a bit more expensive and losing 1 point of damage ... I love it

    Volunteers has left me cold, I did not expect a gigantic change with them but ... at least they gave us an FO, they did not ask for a Sniper or a missile launcher, only an FO, but ... I think the linked toilet is now be crucial for the Wulvers who thanks to their 14 physics ... can be interesting. Wallace ... I like the new profile, it seems very complete ... but it annoys me that I still have to be a lieutenant to be a wildcard when in Kosmo it is not like that

    Cameronian ... well, + 1ARM, NBW and point drop, no complaints. McMurder ... same, point drop for still being that unstoppable beast 45th Highlanders ... drop points, 5 points for the chain are made ... succulent for filling, still a troop that I like

    Cateran ... more CC and cheaper, what is the problem?

    Scot Guard ... I think they have been the ones that have changed the most, they are base mimics (very interesting) with Spitfire AP and a repertoire of weapons with still being specialists, as well as several NCO possibilities ... I like them, they would lack a CoC but ... they're fine

    Uxía ... has won the no longer limited camo in its 2x assault pistol version and since mimicry is no longer linked to the camo itself it will continue to give that -3 even if it has a frenzy, the viewer 1 with smoke grenades has won integers and It is cheaper, in addition to now having Infiltration +6 in its general profile

    SAS ... curious repertoire of profiles, but they come with a subtle general lowering of points, the one of the specialist operational boarding shotgun looks interesting with the new operation of the shotguns, for my complaint ... there are no mines

    For my complaints I am missing Amadeus Wolff and Varengian Guard within the sector, in addition to the already mentioned obviously
     
  2. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    well, wolff is a Merovingian hybrid, so there he is.

    Caledonia always was playable, and practically remain the same. To me, it seems that they put some very low effort in this revision.

    Why the scots are more expensive now? Ok, the 1st battallion now have mimetism and some gain NCO, but what about the camo? Why 2nd Bat Missile Launcher and Spitfire AP are 5-6 points more? Only for +2 inches? It doesnt seems right, specially when other camo troops in other factions remained at the same costs...

    SAS still one of the few skirmishers in the whole game without anything deployable... sad.

    Ohh, and linkable options for Wallace in Kosmoflot are worse... He can only join Varangian fireteam.
     
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  3. Duringhzar

    Duringhzar Active Member

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    oooh I understand, well in Merovingia I think a 2-wounded wildcard could do a good job with some good weapons and yes, but it makes me a little pissed off that the wallace should be a lieutenant (which would probably end up using it anyway, but I like having the option)

    I understand, the Scot is overpriced for having a mimicry, in addition they have changed the precision rifle from AP to shock ... which I dislike. 30 points for the 2nd Battalion sniper rifle ... it seems expensive for what it is. I understand giving it base mimicry and panzerfaust instead of D.E.P. You cannot leave it at 19 points, which perhaps 23 would have been more fair, even so

    ºI think that the 1st Battalion is good quality / price, that the problem resides correctly in the 2nd, the missile launcher has been raised in points because yes, they have not given nothing to justify. The spitfire AP ... it is only because the Molotok no longer exists, +1 damage per 5 points I do not see it profitable since the replacement is just for that, because the Molotok ceases to exist. If they had given him ... no forward deployment + 20cm or NCO ... or even a light flamethrower, he could have understood it and the same for the missile launcher, if he had something special beyond being a camouflage ...
     
  4. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Ok so enlighten me; the hell are you spending those points on? You can't take 30 angry guys in kilts anymore ya know.

    Volunteers and 45th are 5-6 points, you've got a ton of points to spend and taking these guys seems to be a pretty good deal IMO, especially since with crit and shock immunity they're a lot more likely to go unconscious than die outright, at which point a linked Medikit can get them right back up.
     
  5. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    Wulver, mcmurrough, Scot guards, 2 caterans, wallace, cadin...
     
  6. AkiPL

    AkiPL Active Member

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    I'm sitting on CHA since I saw the change trying to build something "nice"...
    so far I got this:


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    WALLACE (Lieutenant) T2 Rifle(+1 Dam), Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 35)
    McMURROUGH Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP + DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    UXÍA McNEILL (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Assault Pistol(+1B), AP CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    S.A.S. (Forward Observer) Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 21)
    CALEDONIAN MORMAER Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt / Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 40)
    CALEDONIAN MORMAER (NCO, X Visor) T2 Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    HIGHLANDER GREY T2 Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Smoke Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 23)
    SCOT (2nd Battalion) (Surprise Attack [-3], Camouflage) Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35)
    WULVER AP Spitfire, Grenades / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
    5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army


    and what's are yours first ideas?
     
  7. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Needs more Angry Scots :P

    Fair enough, but it still doesn't seem terribly difficult to slot in a Haris of 1-2 Mormaers + Greys if you wanted to.

    Like, say, this list:


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    WULVER AP Spitfire, Grenades / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
    WULVER AP Spitfire, Grenades / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
    WALLACE (Lieutenant) T2 Rifle(+1 Dam), Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 35)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER (Paramedic) Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    UXÍA McNEILL (Multispectral Visor L1) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Smoke Grenades ( ) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 26)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    CALEDONIAN MORMAER Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt / Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 40)
    HIGHLANDER GREY T2 Rifle, Light Shotgun(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    HIGHLANDER GREY T2 Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Smoke Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 23)
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 23)
    WARCOR (Sixth Sense) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I dunno, seems alright to me.
     
  8. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    i dont understand the first group... 3-man core with wulvers and wallace? 5 man core volunteers+wallace?
     
  9. Duringhzar

    Duringhzar Active Member

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    A list that I have been able to scratch, I need Uxía to be perfect but ... Wulvers core, you will be a scot guard with Wallace (thus taking advantage of the NCO) several Gawgellians to smoke the wulvers ...


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2
    "FIRSTSTRIKE" DONN T2 Rifle, Grenades / Heavy Pistol, T2 CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    WULVER AP Spitfire, Grenades / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
    WULVER T2 Rifle, Light Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    WULVER T2 Rifle, Light Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    WULVER Heavy Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 23)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    SCOT (1st Battalion) AP Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 30)
    SCOT (1st Battalion) (Forward Observer, NCO) Submachine Gun(+1B), Panzerfaust, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    WALLACE (Lieutenant) T2 Rifle(+1 Dam), Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 35)
    3.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army


    This is a little more "balanced" A Fireteam "core" of Wulvers and haris with new Mormaer


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 23)
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 23)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    WULVER AP Spitfire, Grenades / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
    WALLACE (Lieutenant) T2 Rifle(+1 Dam), Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 35)
    WULVER T2 Rifle, Light Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    UXÍA McNEILL (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Assault Pistol(+1B), AP CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    CALEDONIAN MORMAER Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt / Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 40)
    CALEDONIAN MORMAER (NCO, X Visor) T2 Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    HIGHLANDER GREY T2 Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Smoke Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    4.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
  10. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    The idea with was 5-man core with the Wulvers as solo pieces, mostly because I missed that they have Haris and Core. Might work better with Wallace + 2 Wulvers and throwing in a 5th Volunteer.

    I'll fully admit that I'm much more familiar with USARF lists than CHA, so I was building in that style with the solo AP Spitfires and other solo pieces to support the offensive Haris whilst the Core sits in the back and cheers.

    Also Uxia has some very nasty tricks with MSV1 + Boarding Shotgun + Smoke so I think she's definitely worth at least trying out.
     
  11. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    Im really underwhelmed by this

    It failed to address the limitations and core flaws in CHA which come.about as a result of the N4 environment.

    For every mormaer buff there are 2 Grey HMGs losing ap. SAS lost the profiles that would play well into N4 in the SF capable rifle and the midfield sniper. And scots guard 2nd battalion MLs increased in price for no discernible reason.

    The faction fundamentally cannot play to its strengths due to the tac window cap and has not been given tools that do enough when you consider the opposition they will face on equal footing.
     
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  12. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    It should probably be realistically called the Caledonian Highlander Grey Army now, but man are they tasty for their cost. That's a sectorial backbone right there.

    This is where I'm at as a first draft:

    Charge of the Highlanders Grey
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]4
    CAMERONIAN Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    CAMERONIAN Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    WALLACE (Lieutenant) T2 Rifle(+1 Dam), Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 35)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    HIGHLANDER GREY Heavy Machine Gun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28)
    HIGHLANDER GREY T2 Rifle, Light Shotgun(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    HIGHLANDER GREY T2 Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Smoke Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    VOLUNTEER (Paramedic) Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    CALEDONIAN MORMAER Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt / Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 40)
    HIGHLANDER GREY T2 Rifle, Light Shotgun(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    HIGHLANDER GREY T2 Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Smoke Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    S.A.S. (Forward Observer) Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 21)
    S.A.S. Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    3 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  13. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Yep, pretty much. Doesn't look like the "light infantry spam" army got anything actually designed to fit into the no-spam reality.
     
  14. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    I agree that greys are likely the back of the sectorial and are awesome as individual profiles. However, I look st those lists and I look at what the heavy armour lists in PanO are capable of laying down and I really dont think that the Greys can hold up to things like a Jotum, ORC core or Knight bus rocking the same equivalent orders. I just dont think they will last long enough.
     
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  15. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    I will keep trying of course.
    Just very disappointed at the moment
     
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  16. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    I played one game with Caledonia now against Starmada. I saw Hector go up against the Mormaers. I saw chunks fly out of Hector. In N4 you not only want to hit, but your hits to stick. 17 AP HMG hits and 15 AP+T2 hits will make that happen. This is the kind of damage we only achieve with Dog Warriors in Close Combat and now we can launch multiple hits across the battlefield.

    I would even consider Mormaers in vanilla for that reason. For there price point they compete with Spetsnaz, Tankhunters and Vet Kazaks. The damage output is a reason for me to pick a Mormaer from time to time.

    My experience with N4 is that CC is more of a thing now and armies close in on your DZ faster. I think Caledonia can thrive in such enviroments with the amount of direct templates and CC goodness. Caledonia will reward an aggressive play style. With all the dogged around it will mean that your guys will die, but the damage output will make your opponent die even harder.

    My favorite take away is that wulvers got an SWC weapon and are able to bring a specialist in the form of Isobel a long. That makes them viable against the other link teams in several missions.

    Caledonia can get work done.
     
    #76 Cabaray, Nov 18, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  17. Duringhzar

    Duringhzar Active Member

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    I agree on much of what is said, have not given enough to Caledonia to justify not being able to go beyond 15 orders,

    if, the Mormaer as it is now seems good, I will continue to complain until the fullness that NWI should have or as a minimum AP Immunity but... they'll know. The current Mormaer brings an armament kit that fears with its +2 to damage and that all its ammo is AP. We are talking about a T2+ AP rifle damage 15, A chain-colt AP damage 15, a heavy pistol Shock + AP damage 16, an HMG AP damage 17 (the terror of anyone. The all-armored Jotum in coverage would have a 50% chance of getting hurt).

    But poor Grey has paid dearly for his drop in points, yes, he has an HMG damage 16 or a t2 rifle damage 14, but... preferred a thousand times an HMG AP damage 15... and well, let's say you keep the HMG normal... but you could be given a Spitfire AP profile, I think that as much as it has gone down in points, it will look more like the Mormaer's shotgun companion than as the spearhead of the volunteers... and let's not say Grey's haris or core (although it would be interesting, I'd rather pay a little more points for putting a Mormaer).

    I think it's all going to focus on the Wulver, putting the full core and throwing them into combat, with a spearhead with the Spitfire AP and getting to half a table to start hitting. With the addition that you can now go with them Isobel, making that fireteam can carry a specialist by hand to the half table. The SAS... I would have liked to see an exclusive profile in Caledonia, with Rifle and mines.

    The Scot guard ML has no explanation, I understand rise of some profiles, especially that of double submachine gun (you have been given panzerfaust and NCO) and that the precision rifle has gone up a couple of points for also having NCO, even a slight climb to replace the Molotok with the Spitfire AP, are all changes to some extent understandable , but the ML is the same as in N3, if you said "ML +1 damage" because... there could still be a slight justification (with greater or lesser weight, but it would exist), really its actual rise is because now in 1st battalion it is also memetic... And that's it
     
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  18. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    I see Isobel as a double edged profile... Yes, is a hacker and wildcard, so you can now bring a button pusher who also can theat enemies with assault pistol and T2 rifle and is the only Caledonian profile with deployable weapons, BUUTTT, with all of that Killer Hacking Devices out there and repeaters and the lack of stealth...
     
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  19. Duringhzar

    Duringhzar Active Member

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    Not to say that it is a weak link within the fireteam, having less physics, less ... wounds and less resources not to fall than if you have the wulver, but I think that according to which list compositions and in certain missions the fireteam Wulvers + Isobel might be very interesting

    another thing I don't like is that the 112 doesn't have fireteams either in the USA, FRRM and CHA, I'm not asking for wildcard, but... who could go with the Grunts, the Metros and the Volunteers
     
  20. Ghost87

    Ghost87 Well-Known Member

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    It seems that Ariadna is finally the paramedic faction. Having a linked medikit with range instead of base to base medics is more flexible and even more reliable vs non-cube doctor rolls given that linked paramedics make two rolls and if both hit only one PH roll has to be successful. This is a great and thematic niche compared to hightech doctors.
    Had great success with my last USAriadna game, revived two core members with a medikit in 16".
     
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