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Fidays

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by QueensGambit, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    I've been thinking a bit about Fidays in N4.

    In N3, there were, broadly speaking, two ways to attack with a Fiday. You could spend a bunch of orders to attack carefully, setting up smoke as needed, maybe drop some mines, eliminate one or more targets, then go back into marker state. Or, you could spend a small number of orders on a suicide attack, either taking out one target with CC or multiple targets with a shotgun template, while eating a hail of AROs.

    In N4, the careful attack is less appealing, because throwing smoke, dropping mines, attacking, and re-impersonating all provoke ZoC dodges. The prospect of the opponent repositioning means that a careful attack may take more orders than expected, or fail entirely. Also, N4 has more DTWs everywhere defending against careful attacks.

    On the other hand, a suicide attack is more appealing, for several reasons:
    - Fidays are cheaper.
    - Sixth sense can no longer delay, so as long as the Fiday reveals, he can force bad AROs against his CC/shotgun hit/shotgun DTW.
    - The 15-order limit means that spending one order on the Fiday to take out two or three of the opponent's orders can be a good trade.
    - Going second, it's easier to deploy the Fiday aggressively in preparation for a suicide attack. That's because enemies trying to discover him on their turn face suicide DTW AROs.

    In practice, the change seems to be dramatic. In N3, I almost never opted for a suicide attack. In N4, I have yet to play a game where a careful attack seemed like a good idea, whereas I've had quite a bit of success with suicide attacks.

    What I keep forgetting to do - and I think this will be important - is to drop smoke for the Fiday using a linked Ghulam NCO. If the smoke comes from a distance and the template doesn't touch an enemy model, they don't get to Dodge. It should be possible to deploy a Fiday in the open next to a target, launch smoke onto him, and then murder the target in CC and return the Fiday to marker state.

    What have been your experiences with Fiday tactics in N4?
     
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  2. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

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    For me the fidays are a must on my lists at least 1, they are a cheaper and buffed, it's a pleasure to play against EC or the coming toha with all their power.

    As you said the suicide attack is one good option, that I used last week to take out the Sniper ARO link. Just go CC if he dodge just CC if he shoots you just 2 templates. As we don't got good shooters to take out good ARO peaces just suicide the fiday.

    In the other hand we must read the deploy zone of your opponent to see where can you deploy or deny zones. It depends about the map but if you can go stealth and kill the typical remote or rifleman that's fine.

    In my last games expirence fidays were difficult to go stealth because now the shotgun got template so there's always 1 roll to take. and you can be hacked too so can't re-impersonate. We have to be carefull now, it's good but delicate.
     
  3. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    Fiday, fiday gotta get down on...Which one will I choose?

    The truth is they're all good and extremely effective. The change from impact to DTW for shotguns was huge - it lets them gut those ridiculous fireteams, with one HI and 4 schmucks without having to roll FTF against troopers that are shooting back on 15s. Now I just pick one, go base to base and if they shoot, I give em both DTW barrels. If they dodge, I poke.

    It works well to gut those fireteams for a few reasons...often you can hit one or two guys and, with a little luck they won't be getting back up.

    I have not yet had a chance to do this but I suspect they'll be great deterrents in a TAG-heavy meta as well. It doesn't take much to tie one up and you're probably running >=2 in Bahram anyway. Long story short, disperse and deploy near retreat positions for the TAG. It'll force your opponent to under commit...if he overextends the TAG you can make him pay for it.

    They synergize well with mass Daylami (to cover the approaches to them) and the Nahdir, who can ARO fireteams maneuvering to discover your imp marker.
     
  4. HotFreshTofu

    HotFreshTofu Well-Known Member

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    I love just using the fiday with shock mines somewhere in the middle of the table, or counter deployed on a moran or something annoying like that.

    Similar to how you played your fidays against me, only I would bring just 1 for that role to mitigate the expense of a unit which may not do much beside threaten the other player.

    In our game you had 1 fiday in the middle of the table in a building that was a constant annoying threat for my gui lang (I believe it was). I like that role. Just be an annoying dick head.

    however if you had gone first , I agree with your assessment of the slow careful approach vs suicidal move + attack 1 order fiday.
     
  5. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    I'm not convinced that that's a good idea. The opponent can just use another model to shoot into that close combat, at -6 but with good range band they'll hit on 8-12, and the TAG can easily tank most of the shots that miss, while the Fiday will get killed in short order. Or they can just throw another CC troop into the mix, for that matter. The AP CC Weapon Fiday might be able to grind down a TAG, but I wouldn't bet on it - one lucky F2F for the TAG, and he's doomed. A Speculo Killer he ain't.
     
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  6. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Excellent point. I forgot to mention the new use of Fidays made possible by the shotgun DTW, to just deploy them staring at an opponent's key piece, ready to template it as soon as it moves.

    Ideally, you also want at least one Daylami aiming his panzerfaust at the victim.

    Bonus points if the Fiday's template will catch another model or two, so the opponent really can't afford to activate the victim. But a good opponent will not often deploy in a way that allows that.

    Of course the two uses aren't mutually exclusive. The Fiday can spend the opponent's first turn staring down his target, then if he survives, he can suicide attack on your turn.

    In our game @HotFreshTofu , I think I erred by not making full use of this strategy. My Fiday was staring at your Guilang, but when you grabbed the objective I didn't reveal because you had a mine on the Fiday. I should have templated the Guilang and eaten the mine. Likely both would have died, but you would have been denied the objective. I'm still stuck in N3 mentality where Fidays are expensive and precious.
     
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  7. sackofowls

    sackofowls Member

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    I've tried CCing a Cutter and Squalos a few times in N4 and it doesn't really work. It's order intensive and I have been able to get a wound maybe two in before they squash me. You just aren't rolling enough dice.
     
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  8. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Just an aside since I keep seeing people say this - the DA CCW is a better weapon against all targets including TAGs except the Avatar where it about breaks even and the Jotum where it tilts slightly in the AP CCW's favour (by a very small margin).

    In short the AP CCW should generally not be your go-to even for TAG-hunting unless you're very specifically trying to fight a Jotum and only a Jotum.
     
  9. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    Did someone do the math for that in N4? Usually i'm always for DA and my probability math is pretty rusty but i would have thought the new critical rules in combination with high critical chance on a melee specialist would have more of an impact. I guess one more die still wins in the end.
     
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  10. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Against a Cutter, the AP Fiday is 51% to wound and 8% to wound twice. DA Fiday is 49% to wound and 12% to wound twice. Basically no difference.

    Against an Avatar, AP is 46% and DA is 41%.

    Against a Jotum, AP is 47% and DA is 35%.

    So yeah, against anything less than an Avatar, AP is at best the same as DA. And of course as the ARM gets lower, DA gets better and better. Against an Avatar, AP has a 5% better chance which you may or may not view as significant. Against the Jotum, AP has a 12% better chance which I think is getting into the "definitely better" range.

    Conclusion: this is correct:

     
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