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Why is Hack in N4 considered better than in N3 ?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by LeGweg, Oct 31, 2020.

  1. LeGweg

    LeGweg Lucky dice roller

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    Why is Hack in N4 considered better than in N3 ?
    Is it simply because of the new hacking programs?
    Or is there any new mechanic making it more effective ?
     
  2. MattB89

    MattB89 Well-Known Member

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    KHD's now suffer Firewall MODs making them less of a threat to HDs and HD+s.

    Assault Hacking Devices got removed and programs like Carbonite and Total Control + Oblivion got added to regular HDs.

    Less programs make things more streamlined.

    Spotlight no longer suffers a -3 WIP mod.

    Also states imposed by Hacking programs do not expire until they are fixed by an engineer or reset out of.
     
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  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Oblivion is stronger by having B2 and AP
    Spotlight is a lot stronger by no longer having -3 on the roll and working in ARO
    Hacking in general is stronger because Tinbots no longer stack with hacking through hostile Repeaters nor Fairy Dust and also for how hacking effects stick around

    Hacking is a lot easier on the brain APM for no longer needing encyclopaedic knowledge of the hacking programs minutia

    Note; Killer Hacking is objectively weaker (which, I feel like I have to add, is not saying that it is a change for the worse nor better)
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    KHDs are weaker: this means that Repeaters are not primarily threat vectors against your own Hackers but rather back to being board control tools.

    Hackers are universally useful due to Spotlight being an ARO. This means that you can invest in Hacking and not need to worry that your investment is worthless if you have a bad match up.

    Hackers are more accessible: the ability to put a LI Hacker in a Fireteam with Repeaters you were already purchasing (Fusi Hacker + Peacemaker) is an easy decision to make when that choice doesn't cost you much.

    Tactical Window means that soft AROs that slow your opponent or limit the effectiveness of key pieces are highly valued.

    These four factors play into each other (spending 5pts on upgrading a Fusi to a Hacker is less of an impost when it doesn't cost you an Order by forcing you to drop a Fugazi and will likely will cost your opponent at least an order while being less easy to trivially kill) with the result that Hacking has greater utility in N4 than in did in post-HSN3 N3.
     
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  5. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    In addition, the mechanical changes in N4 promotes a greater usage of HIs and TAGs. So if you bring a regular hacking device, you most likely will have a possible target. And with the burst changes, active hacking is viable as well.
     
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  6. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    most people didn't ever try to hack in n3, and was rended mostly for aro purposes, with some lucky rolls that bended their perception of hacking. In my opinion, hacking by itself got more usefull in some games, with more constant effect, but with less powerfull effects. Basically, now the HD are less versatile but more useful in their role, the hardest effects are easier to put while the softer effects got an extra punch, but the same time, the hardest effects are easier for the enemy player to take them out, while the softer are harder to. This makes it a bit more constant in what you try and what you get. For those people, seeing now more hackings means that hacking got a huge boost. Hacking got changes that made it better and worse in different sides, depending on what did you spect from it.

    changes to better:
    • reset got a little nerf aginst imm-b, because now is with a -3, not plain wip. Also, it gets extra malus if there are other statuses (targetted, isolated)
    • Spotlight in ARO and targetted not going out at the end of the turn are the big boost, which is the main reason some people see hacking better (Even if they don't get to that conclussion). This change makes that reset gets the real nerf, because is an extra -3, and is the big boost to hacking.
    • Active turn hacking got a bit more of impact because better ammunition or burst (jet, free resets make aro hacking usually better, except for some situations)
    • Oblivion now is in more HD than before, which makes it easier to use, and more common to face. For people that used AHD or HD+ this is a no-change.
    • KHD got a nerf, only trinity and they cannot ignore firewall, but on the other side, trinity is the only program with a base +3 bonus, so it got a sidestep
    • a lot of units lost stealth, wich is an indirect boost to hacking.
    • tactical window might make some people discard cheap troops which usually are inmune to hacking, in favor of hackable units, making it a more hackable meta..but that is their fault, not hacking's.
    • Evo got way cheaper (but even now, they pay as if they had a weapon they don't). Other hacking devices got a bit cheaper..but there are some inconsistencies on how much...some got cheaper than other (HD+ got 1 point cheaper for interventors, 3 for others). A few got even more expensive (For example, KHD interventor)

    changes to worse:
    • oblivion got a nerf too. B2? just an excuse, because it is still better to use it in aro (because order efficiency and to not give free resets), where it is b1. Got better ammunition, but the possibility to be reseted (compared to no possibility at all) is huge and the reason I say is a nerf. Anyway, it is only small because the better ammunition, and the big malus stackable with the other malus for reset.
    • HD and HD+ lost hacker damaging programs, making them less secure (even if KHD lost their ignoring firewall ability), but also lost supportware, which was the only reason a lot of people deffended the awfully hacking we had in active turn during n3.
    • impersonation doesn't give the surprise shot unless you had the skill, so a lot of KHD and HD+ lost a bit of power in their active turn, but it is a bit situational

    Some of the nerfs/boots are really small and situational, the main changes are related to reset, spotlight and access to programs (which also affects the investment in hacking)

    If you tried to make hacking useful in n3 and were already investing in it, I think you will se not much difference, or even a nerf (you need more hackers to do the same work... the evo), so in the end, you will need the same or more investment than before, but the effects are more constant now.

    if you didn't use hacking at all, you get a big boost, because even the basic hackers used to deploy remotes or to boost them, now can do other kind of hacking even in aro against non-hackable units, and HDs are more in the likes of n1 numbers and use. There are a lot of things where hacking got better, making it more interesting for people that didn't use it before, and opens to old forgoten tactics like the inteligen missile spam.

    Some hackers got extra changes that make all of the above different for them (for example, jazz got HD+ and trinity as an upgrade, which makes her the only HD+ hacker with a damaging program, while interventors lost big part of their use as the gest generalist hackers when loosing both sword and supportware programs and getting the smaller discount for it)
     
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  7. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    I'm finally starting N4.

    I'm happy we lost AHD. I compare N4 more to N2 than to N3. N2 to N3, my hackers all got split up between HD and AHD.
    I'm glad that they return to having the same functions. It will be easier to coordinate.

    I'm also happy that the program chart was reduced. HD+ and AHD had too many same same, but different programs. Now HD+ is simply HD plus a few more program. In general, we don't have any upgrade/sidegrade. Choosing a program is more straight forward (KHD gets only 1 anti-hacker program rather than 3).

    As mentioned above, repeater are more board control now, as they were in N2.

    I don't mind support ware moving from HD to EVO exclusive. We don't need a cheapest pts HD to unlock REM anymore.

    Assisted Fire got nerfed (by marksmenship not doing shock anymore), and I'm glad about it. Giving it to HMG Total Reaction was annoying for many players locally. Being able to have it from the start with EVO command token was making it even more scary.
     
    #7 Robock, Apr 18, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
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