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[Info request] are 3D resin printers usable in an appartment ?

Discussion in 'Miniatures' started by Koin-Koin, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. Koin-Koin

    Koin-Koin Well-Known Member

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    I hope this thread is not out of place here, if so, please move or delete accordingly. I just think it's the subforum where I may hit the people who can answer my questions.

    I'm actually considering getting one of those toys but there's one big question mark I can't find answer for.

    It is understood that 3D printing resins (and resins in general) should be used in a well ventilated room because of being smelly and above all unhealthy.

    Still there's plenty of "home/desk" models and some of them mention included filtering system as the Anycubic Photon S but beside the information "reduce the divergence of odor" or similar vague description, I can't find factual opinion about the reality.

    So if anyone here actually use a Photon/Photon S can tell me how effective the filtration is, you will make my day.

    Also, if anyone can provide feedback on other models so I can put them in the "no way", "to be considered" or "definitely" columns, please feel free to share.

    EDIT : thanks to the already posted feedbacks I understand that I need to clarify my information query, so I try below.

    What I need to answer first :
    - is using a resin 3D printer in my actual environment safely regarding the fumes something that can be done with a combo of the proper printer (filtered) / resin (with minimal fume) combo possible "as it" (no specific adjustements needed).

    Once this answered, then I'll may consider what could be the extra adjustments.

    Again, thanks a lot for all your entries. Plenty of wise comments.
    Here my thoughts about the topic after 3 weeks so it may help others.

    Thanks to all the feedback I get here, I was able to find the information I need to come to the conclusion that:
    at the moment, I don't find myself welcoming a 3D printer in my home in a way that I would consider safe enough.

    Even If my initial question was focused on the resin kind of printers, it appears that FDM printers are not safe too.

    As a disclaimer and a summary: "home" or "desk" 3D printers are just industrial machines small enough to be placed in small places so they should be treated like in an industrial place. In the first case, it's the material itself that requires cautions be it used or not, in the second one, if the material itself could be handled safely, the heating process generated fumes and particles that you don't want in your organism. Still, both can be used safely if done properly (i.e.: respect of security measures).

    That being said, I think that 3D printers still can find their way to everybody's home. We just need to ensure we take enough care (dedicated room in a house, air booth, ...).

    In a small apartment, it's a bit more tricky. Here are the options I found "safe enough for me":
    - printer in a room with lots of ventilation: feasible for me but then I should limit it's use based on the weather
    - airbooth with extraction near the window: not an option to me unless I completely change the way the room is set (potentially new furnitures)
    - sealed enclosure with internal air filtering system (recycling): possible but need extra space as the enclosure should be bigger than the printer
    - non sealed enclosure with extraction filtering system: same as above plus option for extra safety by extracting through the window but with same limit as for the booth

    Anyway, all of the options above require some planning and home improvement first, so I'll take my time as where it leads.

    The options I consider the most is transforming a piece of furniture into an enclosure. Not necessary the one I'll use but let's consider this could host a resin printer in the middle, a wash and cure machine in the top part and store the accessories in the lower part.

    Things I noted:
    - Glass window allow to see when a print is finished
    - room inside the furniture will limit the kind of printer (front opening or removable top)
    - some electricity/connectivity should reach the inner space without breaking it's proof
    - the filtering solution should allow easy filter change
    - external command would be great to start and stop without opening it
    - some resins have less smell and has no visible effect on the daily use but even if it's really harmless it means limited material choice (no fancy flexible resine for instance)

    Here's a nice article about all this.
     
    #1 Koin-Koin, Oct 30, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  2. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    Following since I am also interested in the question. Been considering this for a while but I like in a small-ish appartment.
     
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  3. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I've looked into it, and know a couple people with resin printers and it is a bit smelly. They do it in their basement to avoid any risk. I have seen people online make a box using a spray booth and then vent the air out a window, but it depends on your buildings windows. It also added a bit of noise.

    I'm in a condo building and never could get the vent on my spray booth (for air brushing) connected to the windows properly.
     
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  4. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    It's not just the printing, but the curing under UV and then washing in Isopropyl alcohol. The latter two can be done outside but not all apartments have a space for that.
     
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  5. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    There are also bioresins that claim to be less toxic/lower smell, but I don't know if they print as well and if they really are safer.
     
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  6. Koin-Koin

    Koin-Koin Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware of this part but it's worth mentioning as this thread may be useful for people with the same concerns.
    On my side, I can deal with this part as :
    1) I already use isopropyl so I know it's on the ok side so far
    2) if I get a printer I'll go the extra step with a wash and cure machine

    Still your comment point another thing people have to we aware : get enough space to handle several chemical product without risking to spill any.

    Seen this but it seems to also have its drawback* so I keep it at the "improvement to consider" at the moment.
    Obviously if someone confirm that "model X with filtration + resin Y (+ extra Z solution) = no fume problem" I want to know.

    *Some resins are water-washable so it would get the isopropyl out of the way but "bio-resin" are apparently "isopropyl only". But it could be fair trade.
     
  7. ChrisForrest

    ChrisForrest Well-Known Member

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    I have a photon.
    It's great! You'll be fine if you use the Anycubic eco resin (the clear green is the one I've used). It has little smell.
    Standard Anycubic is stinky. Elegoo honks. I currently use nova3d which is cheap and gives nice prints but if it's on for more than 24hr straight the smell starts to build quite a bit.

    Ask me anything you need about it :)
     
  8. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    The Elegoo Mars Pro 2 has a rubber seal gasket for the cover and a decent filter on the fan, which apparently cuts down on the stench somewhat.
     
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  9. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Isopropyl I’m not worried about. I thought some of them used acetone for the rinse, which I find much more offensive.
     
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  10. Koin-Koin

    Koin-Koin Well-Known Member

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    I have access to such a spray booth but such a McGuyver option is not really something I consider.
    I could be a workaround anyway.

    First : thanks for the feedback and the extra query proposal.
    I understand that most brand have their own resin range but as long as you stick with wavelength of your printer you can use any brand with it.
    Did you try many resins ?
    If I jump into it, the room I'll use is my desk where I spent time for minis and computer mostly it's a bit under 10m². Next room is the living room/kitchenette so I can close the door. Do you think that the combo filtered printer + eco resin is enough to continue spending hours in the same room while a print is running ?

    I already use mask when I airbrush but it's a limited period and dedicated to this task. I don't see myself wearing it while I'm on the computer or painting only with brush.

    Elegoo Mars keeps appearing in the tops printers but still hard to know how efficient is the filtration system.
    If anyone as one please provide some feedback.

    @colbrook thanks for keeping providing options here. I know I ask for owner's feedback but there's so much choice around that your entries are more than welcome to help me investigating options I missed or overlooked.
     
  11. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    I did a lot of research during lockdown when I was unemployed and got very close to buying one myself before I got a new job.
     
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  12. ChrisForrest

    ChrisForrest Well-Known Member

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    I've tried the ones I mentioned, and chatted about others on some 3d printing discords that I'm on. For low smell, Anycubic ECO is the lowest odour.
    It sounds like you'd be ok. I paint for hours sat in a similar sized room about 1m away from the printer.

    Be aware that there is a new wave of machines launching at the moment. Don't buy anything unless it has a 4k MONOchrome screen (unless you get. Super good deal on the previous gen).
     
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  13. Koin-Koin

    Koin-Koin Well-Known Member

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    That's definitely the kind of information I need.
    Still I tend to make a difference between "it doesn't smell" and "there is no toxic fume" but I assume that if there is still fume, even without smelling it, you'll notice some effect after staying some time around as you do.

    The next gen warning is fair. I also have to say that it may be like changing a CPU, if you wait for the soon to arrive generation, you can be stuck waiting for years ^^. But yes, some bargain can be a trigger as the 4K at cheaper price is not expected until next year apparently.
     
  14. ChrisForrest

    ChrisForrest Well-Known Member

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    There's not any noticeable effect from exposure.
    The 4k mono ones are coming out about now or in the next month, and the previous gen models are based on a 2-3 year old design. The non-mono screens also wear out quicker and require replacement.
     
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  15. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    Water washable still requires you to not throw the liquid down the drain. And use gloves and glasses. Still toxic. If you put the machine outside (or cold garage), resins will behave differently or even fail, so beware.

    The mono screens require less time per layer... so the longevity combines: X for the tech being more resistent to UV, and Y for the faster layers (1/Y time), you will replace them every X*Y. Do you want to print big or small things? 2K can be enough if the print area is small, giving ~50 micron resolution (20 blobs per mm). 4K seems to be for bigger prints at same resolution.

    Also try to get one with linear rails, they will keep the platform on the right spot, avoiding shifts as it moves up and down, so no shaky "straights".

    Buying "cheap" old models means you spend less money now, but more time solving issues, and later, extra money on spare parts per prints done (eg screens and films) or upgrades to improve quality (eg rails). From what I see, the Chinese are trying to get rid of the old stock, because better things are shipping. Buying cheap can be expensive.
     
  16. cory

    cory Well-Known Member

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    As a landlord, including to one of my Infinity buddies who handles our resin print needs, I have to say yes they do smell, and more than most users realize due to sensory adaption. Some resins are better than others, handling as has been mentioned above can help, but so far the four tenants I have with resin printers have all had complaints made about the smell. Ventilation helps, but blowing the smell out the window is not always a solution, especially if the odor is just going in to a public space or another neighbor's window.

    For one tenant we installed a much beefier vent fan in the bathroom and sealed the bathroom door a bit better. The fan vents on to a flat roof which solved the issue.

    I helped another tenant build a phonebooth like box that seal tightly and has a decent filter system inside - that eliminated neighbor complaints about the odor, but you need to have the space. In this case the 24"x24"x76" box holds all of his supplies as well. He also is patient and allows time for prints to sit in there and air off, though how much I can't say.
     
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  17. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    Anycubic photon x looks like it has those features, @Mob of Blondes.
    Anyone got any experience with photon? Good? Bad? Indifferent?
     
  18. ChrisForrest

    ChrisForrest Well-Known Member

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    My OG photon has been excellent.
     
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  19. Koin-Koin

    Koin-Koin Well-Known Member

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    First, thank you all for all your feedbacks.

    Interesting.

    All of this makes sense but the drawback is lack of real feedback until next year.
    Investing in next gen is an overall good choice but maybe not really an absolute must in my case.
    Anyway, I'm not in a hurry as I'm totally prepared to just forget about it for a while if I'm not convinced by the actual offer.

    Totally understood, none of those are options for me.

    That's what I understood too. Not a need but if it is the new standard available when (if) I get one it'll be OK. My main use will be mini/hobby related prints. Any other uses would be considered as nice extra.

    That seems to be understood by manufacturers now even for the cheapest one, but still something to keep track of.

    Yep, as usual it will be a balance between initial investment and long term cost.
    I won't go cheap for the sake of cheap but even if I'm ready to invest the higher range to ensure I get the appropriate tool I won't put extra money just for some fancy hype features.

    That's definitely some valuable inputs you got there.
    I assume that worrying about the fume and my own health I won't impact my neighbours. I won't rely on a "just put the smell outside" solution. Proper filtering is my first goal.

    Interesting but definitely not an option for me (bathroom won't be a permanent workshop).

    I've considered the option to get a dedicated piece of furniture to enclose it with some filtering system.
    Will required extra cost and work that I may or may not be ready to put but is definitely something I need to look at and estimate. I've seen companies making dedicated enclosure but it's a big extra in the budget and it may eat more space than I can afford.

    In the end, it may require some rethinking of the room. This could be a show stopper at the moment.

    I'll edit the first post to clarify a bit my request.
     
  20. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    The smell will be there when you open the printer unless you make a human sized box to work in. Next best option (on top of buying a printer with filter) is placing everything near a window, then tube and fan, similar to airbrush booth exhaust.
     
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