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OctoBrrrrrr, it's getting cold! Speculation thread.

Discussion in 'News' started by colbrook, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    @archon if your local game store orders from CB you probably can get it on order.
     
  2. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Nope sadly they not do. But I can life with that. Maybe its better that way.
     
  3. Croepoek

    Croepoek Well-Known Member

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    I am very confused that people find it totally acceptable that a company does NOT put a proper list of content of a bundled product online and/or corrects it after seeing a discussion flaring up in their own forum. Effort for a web-edit should be like 3 to 5 minutes?!

    Yes I know CB is not a huge company but those things are easy fixes that should be prioritized in operations because the return on invest is fantastic. Also stuff like not constantly (eg every two weeks) communicate about the Defiance Kickstarter are for the same reason confusing for me.

    And to the issue of how to critizise or how to communicate with CB about stuff like this - yeah could have been more civil on all sides :slightly_smiling_face:
     
    MikeWy, archon, Ghost87 and 2 others like this.
  4. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    On the one hand, that "three to five minutes" estimate I think leaves out something important: The relatively huge time between someone asking the question, and the time until someone figures out what the proper answer is. As someone who has worn both the 'customer service' hat and the 'software engineer' hat for a project, figuring out what the correct change to make is really does often take a huge amount more time than actually making the change.

    How many Kickstarter projects have you been involved with? An update "every two weeks" is a standard that a lot of projects don't and/or could not meet. In a lot of cases, there really are huge lengths of time in which there really isn't any news to report.
     
  5. Vocenoctum

    Vocenoctum Well-Known Member

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    To be fair though, the ITS pack isn't a model pack. It's an event pack for people running events, with prizes and stuff. It could be clearer, certainly, but it's not a bundled retail product.

    Sometimes there's just nothing worth communicating. "It's still in production" might satisfy you wanting info, but would more likely just provoke people that there wasn't enough info. Likewise, most kickstarters are monthly updates, and many cannot even stick to that. I'd certainly like more info about timelines when possible, but it's also clear that CB (and many of their customers that were first time KSers) have no clue how normal Kickstarters go.

    A common question is if a kickstarter with multiple waves will reopen the pledge manager between waves, but I doubt CB has even thought about it or knows it's common...

    Yeah, though it's obvious some folks just have no clue about social cues or how they're perceived or don't care of course. Certainly not a useful discussion in the end.
     
    Dragonstriker and Croepoek like this.
  6. Please do not confuse whether we agree or disagree with «what is said», with «the way it is said».

    To make it clear, I do agree that the content list maybe should specify the content better, but I do not agree, at all, that it is said that it is not possible to know what is in the pack because of CB... when in the first photograph of the store all the material is displayed (not counting on the random selection of patches, what is that ... a random selection).
    And I am even less in agreement that it is said that the photograph of the content is either an error or that it cannot be trusted to match the content of what will be sent to you once it is purchased.

    Edit and add: Maybe the form of what was written above may seem somewhat aggressive, but it is not my intention at all. The idea that I want to convey is: «I can totally agree with what you say and totally disagree with how you say it».
     
    #746 Pettynyt Pelaaja, Oct 28, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2020
  7. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    It's an event pack that is also sold by Corvus Belli directly as a physical product.

    If it were truly an event pack? You wouldn't be able to buy it unless you were running an event. As far as I'm aware, there is no restriction.
     
  8. Croepoek

    Croepoek Well-Known Member

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    I know that the other part takes time, but I think this is not the discussion here. This has been now in the wild for a few days and there is no change in the store (checked 28.10. at 17:39 CET). Also: Changes in a webpage that is finished and only are about text should be rather quick. On top of that CB is not an operation with 1000 of people and dedicated siloed departments, more of a situation were you can just walk over to the colleagues who handle the webshop. I can feel your pain as I have seen the situation where it is impossible to identify responsible persons, trigger a change request and get that done in big companies to many times. But anyhow, we only can point it out, CB needs to act on it. Anyway, in the end it is potential lost sales for CB so there is a motivation to change it :smile:

    As for the KSs: multiple, but again it does not really help to go for whataboutism and point to other KSs. CB established that rythm and as soon as there was a break people started to notice. They probably should have just kept the rythm :neutral_face:


    I think even it there is no real update showing progress, it is better to communicate to everyone that e.g. shipment is delayed because of the worldwide Covid situation. Sometimes people are reasonable and understand :wink: They have so much material as the product is ready, just show some stuff and everyone is happy. There have some cool updates in-between showing content and a small update on progress. I would have loved if CB kept the pace here.
     
  9. Croepoek

    Croepoek Well-Known Member

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    I did not take it agressive at all, no worries. I think this discussion could go on, if a picture is sufficient, if the text supports it, if a second product with content nested should be explained etc. In the end now it is clear for all of us and at least I am happy with the outcome of the discussion and it getting way more civilised :grinning:
     
  10. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Some of us also have disabilities which make these things very hard or even impossible for us, especially in indirect communication like written text. Those disabilities are well known to the Forum by now and yet we get mocked for them. Rare few folks have the decency to help us and try to read what we're saying and not how we're saying it, others just demand the impossible of 'just work on yourself'.

    I won't miraculously jump off the spectrum, I won't get rid of Asperger's Syndrome. I can attempt to mitigate it and sometimes succeed, most of the time I will fail because it fucks with my perception and ability to gauge those very social cues, tone, the way I and others come across.
     
    Pettynyt Pelaaja likes this.
  11. holycannoli

    holycannoli Dancing to Kazak Kalinka

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    I'm fairness. I've kickstarted several board games... and well CB has been pretty regular with updates until around covid started. Then they got back into a regular progress update schedule.

    Is it weekly? No. But I've think mythic games and battletech were that on point with updates. Most games I've kickstarted might go quiet for months. Cb's been pretty good about showing some sort of progress as the project goes on on a regular basis. Even of it's about once a month. I think the original KS did mention November shipping (wires might be getting crossed) so they're not even that delayed.

    Could they do better, yes. But in the realm of kickstarter games they get a solid B in terms of giving updates to the backers. Not every little detail, but far from take the money and run.

    Their last update saying "it's on the boat" means it'll usually be a week to a month more before it gets to our houses. It's when they mention it's in their distributor/logistics service that you should be checking your doorstep daily for defiance.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  12. I have to admit that I was unaware of your disabilities and that may have led me to confuse your attitude. :sweat:

    Now that I know I will do my best to try to understand what you are saying regardless of how you are saying it. :hugging_face:
     
  13. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Thank you, much appreciated :)

    For some time I had a line of text in my signature, basically stating that I have these disabilities. But mostly it only caused Those People to use it as ammo against me, in claims that "I'm hiding behind my disability instead of doing something with it", which obviously was just as tedious and unhelpful.
     
  14. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    Here it comes. Play the disability card to make us feel bad. Having disabilities does not exempt you for being an idiot. (And I have met many people with that problem)
    Should a company adapt to a small fraction of its target? Should a large group change for one person?
    What if tomorrow I have a work accident and lose an eye, leaving me with only my eye with 20% visual acuity? Should I start demanding to the company bring me pre-assembled figures and a method to play with my limited vision? Or should I accept it and quit the game?
     
    #754 fari, Oct 28, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  15. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Ladies and gentlemen, I give you That Guy.
     
  16. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    yes. i'm that guy, but i was diagnosed sudden humor changes in a psyquic evaluation, the reason why i cant work in the army or in private security (where i was some time ago, and, of course, my vision issue), so you cant mock or attack me for saying anything.
     
    #756 fari, Oct 28, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  17. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Cool story, troll, into the plonk you go.
     
  18. I am not a moderator of the forum, but I think it is time for both of you to stop this escalation of hostility right now.
     
    #758 Pettynyt Pelaaja, Oct 28, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2020
    Croepoek, Wolfbrother, Stiopa and 2 others like this.
  19. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    ohh, you dont believe me? Ok, i dont have to demostrate anything. You can believe or not. Like me believing your story.
     
    #759 fari, Oct 28, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  20. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

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    Gentlemen, what if I told you that you could BOTH be That Guy to other players?
    There's no need to fight over the title, it's not an exclusive membership.
     
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