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Your N4 Games

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    He lands but the explode attack is canceled.

    Yes, hackers will get AROs depending on the final landing position, just like other troopers.
     
  2. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Well that sucks on both accounts. He's a lot more vulnerable than he used to be.
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Explode isn't cancelled, it just never gets declared. There's a difference as the camo marker can ARO without validating the attack, which it would if the attack such that is cancelled.
     
  4. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    Ummm I didn't understand the last part. If I land on alone camo marker and camo declares aro will explode happen? My understanding is no as you had to declare it while landing before camo revealed with aro. Am I wrong? Please say I'm wrong :)
     
  5. darthchapswag

    darthchapswag Shandian Strike Team

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    The point Mahtamori is making is that you land and decide whether you can declare Explode; if there's a camouflage marker/ friendly model within the blast template then you can't declare Explode.
    After this, any models that can react to the Liu Xing declare their AROs.

    However, correct me if I've got this wrong, you can drop on a camo marker if there's a non-marker state model as the target of explode?
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. When you land you need to declare Explode with a target. Camo isn't a legal target, but if there's a deployable repeater nearby you can target that one and clip the camo marker next to it - if the deployable repeater turns out to be in range when you stick the template down.

    THEN the ARO step happens.

    -

    So mechanics aside here's the opinion step: I think it's crummy. I'd rather see this one-time-only be a targetless attack. Even the affordable Taryot aren't quite common enough that I think this risks getting too exploitative, but they are certainly a good argument against by virtue of their relative inexpensive nature.
    However, it's a template attack so it is effectively measured immediately.
     
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Played Transmission Matrix and Firefight on this table. Not much to write about for Transmission Matrix, we both went into that with the assumption it was going to be a stupid game and it was. That mission probably needs a rework for N4 as giving any faction the ability to spotlight and missile bot into deployment zones with probably needs a rethink as it will very much cause issues for factions that have inadequate marker state units to hide on objectives and inadequate hacking to protect themselves against a superior hacking faction. The gulf between factions that can and can't hack (or hack mediocre/poorly) has widened in N4.


    Firefight though gave me the opportunity to test some FO Ninjas. I was expecting my opponent to play into Firefight extremely aggressively utilising the special mission rules and I decided I wanted to build something heavily ambushed based, both to punish that and to see how Vanilla fared in that regard. Prior to Uprising I was a huge fan of mixing Shinobu and Oniwabans into lists and I found stabbing sprees made people extremely cagey about being aggressive as it became very easy to be caught out of position.

    [​IMG]

    My plan was to try to force taking second turn. If my opponent won the roll and chose deployment, I'd pick second anyway. The list conveyed practically no useful information with the only visible models being warbands, a Celestial Guard, and a Lu Duan pretending to be an EVO hacker. My opponent going first and running over to my side of the table didn't really both me when my major ARO and attack pieces were all hidden anyway.

    I won the roll and chose deployment, with the plan if my opponent decided to pick second turn I'd ram a Hac Tao into their deployment zone with 10-12 orders on turn one and be fine with that. They picked to go first though as expected, it was O-12 and their defense was mostly reliant on perimeter weapons and soft ARO flash pulse bots and hackers. My opponent was terrified of AD troops, particularly the Liu Xing auto dropping on PH20 and a large portion of his units and perimeter options were set up to protect his DZ with riot stoppers and Mad Traps. This is probably also a result of the last time I played firefight with someone in N3 I dropped 3 Tigers and a Liu Xing on them.

    I decided to place one Ninja far up the table ahead of the Hac Tao to offer close range support if needed, and then placed the other one further back to act as an ARO piece against models, particularly AD ones trying to land on my right side. A Hun Dun got placed to watch the back left of my table, and the Lu Duan was watching the right side with the Ninja as an EVO hacker. I placed the Daoying's mine on top of the red and white building next to another Hun Dun with the Dao Ying hiding on the stair case. I make use of Lunah and the Guilang MSR so I hoped my opponent would be concerned enough about a potential sniper to waste time dealing with it.

    I stripped 2 orders from his first combat group and a Varangian tried to move up and throw smoke for an Epsilon but got smacked by the Chaiyi's flash pulse.

    My opponent was running multiple AD and wanted to drop, and was also concerned about auto success Liu Xing dropping on PH20, so he used his second group to push a repeater bot straight into my DZ to get at my EVO hacker. He reasoned either it'd get there and he'd kill my EVO, or I'd be forced to pop a Hun Dun ARO out of hidden state which also worked for him. I wasn't going to reveal AROs to stop it and he was using out of LOF forced Dodge AROs to bypass most of the point defense Monks and Kuang Shi, but unfortunately copped a long range pistol crit on 1s from a Monk. That BS10 N4 upgrade paying off. Ultimately wouldn't have mattered as the EVO was a Lu Duan and wasn't at danger from his KHDs anyway but I was happy that the holomask threw him off and tanked the throwaway group 2's orders for no reason.

    Epsilon moved up and blasted the Chaiyi with its HMG anyway. Then tried to discover the camo marker on the roof and failed. The Lawkeeper succeeded, found out it was a mine, then tried to push on the EVO again and force AROs to break hidden deployment. It was a cheap Lawkeeper Combi SO but I still think it was a mistake as I didn't break out any hidden AROs, and even though it had the opportunity to shoot some warbands in the back it ended up failing there and only getting the one Monk, which knocked it out in return with a Chain Rifle. Stunned Varangian dropped back, Gangbusters dropped some Madtraps and that was my opponent's turn over.

    Most of my warbands elected not to move for Impetuous, except one Monk who dodged a Madtrap and then flipped another Monk's order and used his own order to smoke dodge a Dakini HMG then get into CC and kill a Gangbuster.

    The Epsilon was within a few orders of the Ninja deployed ahead of the Hac Tao. I revealed the Hac Tao and shot the Kytta covering the Epsilon, took a couple of orders as I flubbed the surprise shot. Ninja then got into CC with the Epsilon and killed it. In hindsight I should've just shot the Epsilon as I had the opportunity to hit it out of cover on 14s and it would've been better odds than the Ninja risking a 1/4 to getting downed by the Nanopulser on the Epsilon, but I really wanted to CC something with the Ninja and went for it. The Hac Tao moved up and put the Varangian into dogged, then dropped back and spent a couple of orders fumbling with a panoply before finding a light flamethrower then dropped back again and went back into camo.

    Opponent decided he had to commit Cuervo and entered through the DZ flank the Lawkeeper had tried to push down judging that as no hidden AROs had popped out it had the highest chance to be safe. It also gave him a run on the camo marker he was 100% sure was the Daoying LT now, and the opposite flank was being watched by the EVO hacker and at this point he was very suspicious of it and had deduced it was actually a Lu Duan given no AD troops were turning up. He was correct about the Lu Duan but incorrect about the opposite side of the DZ being safe, there was Hun Dun watching it and Cuervo caught a rocket and burned to death. Dakini HMG then spent the rest of the group 1 orders pushing up and gunned down a Monk in the process. It was on the opposite side of the table to the revealed Ninja, Hac Tao, and Hun Dun so it really had a lack of targets to engage. Gangbuster went into suppressive fire and that was the end of the turn.

    My opponent had a Bronze sitting on a roof covered by several Madtraps. I had been very suspicious of this model the whole game and figured it was Cho as the LT. So the Ninja went back into camo and went on a suicide run to find out. It could bypass most of the madtraps safely, by the time an enemy model could bring it out of camo state it wouldn't matter because it'd be within 4" of the Bronze. I was correct, it was Cho and she got kicked in the head. The Ninja also ate half a dozen AROs and wound up immobilised and unconscious, but it was worth it.

    That put O-12 in loss of LT for turn 3 and the game was more or less done at that point so we called it. Overall I think Vanilla has a very dangerous shell game and is full of hidden threat vectors and AROs. I think against Vanilla it is going to become increasingly dangerous to attack aggressively to the point of it being a reckless mistake. I think that you can build Vanilla lists to be similar to Shaas in terms of being difficult to attack aggressively due to the large amount of units hidden either off the table or under markers or holomasked. We do lack the upper end I win button of the Speculo, but there's a greater depth in options with warbands, perimeter weapons, Holomask, and other toys.
     
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  8. Skippaye

    Skippaye New Member

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    Nice report! I might try that list out, double ninjas is real appealing.

    One question - you mention auto-succcess Liu Xing drops a few times, but even with EVO we roll on 17's. Where was the extra potential +3 coming from?
     
  9. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    Firefight has a +3 bonus to Combat Jumpers (and lets parachutists walk into the enemy DZ)
     
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  10. Senyu

    Senyu Active Member

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    Mission mode was Frontline. I played Vanilla, he played Bahram, and here's the map.

    [​IMG]

    He won and chose 2nd deployment, so naturally I took first turn. Online army builder isn't working for me, so I can't post a pic. I had 4 Shaolin Monks in my 2nd pool, with the following in my first order pool.
    • Dayoing Lt Hacker
    • Hac Tao (NCO)
    • Blue Wolf
    • Knauf
    • Chief Jeong K1 Combi + Servant bot
    • 2x Bounty Hunters (rolled panzerfaust and MSV1)
    • Doctor + Servant bot
    • Liberto
    I deployed at the bottom, setting up my LT and Doc behind the bottom left building and placing Knauf at the top where the silhouette tokens can be seen. Blue Wolf was the reserve sitting in the center right, while Chief Jeong was behind the staircase of the far right building nearby. The bounty hunters were on both ends of the board and the monks were distributed evenly. The Hac Tao sat in the center behind the short wall before the staircase. And I also setup the Liberto on the left where the flame tokens sit in the picture. I placed his mine on the far, far left ally, but it saw no action all game aside from a lone monk running into the enemy DMZ. He set up a fire team core up on the top left of Ghulam with Yara Haddad and a Hassassin Govad missle launcher staring at Knauf. They were scattered on the roof and at the end of the allyway the flamer templates point down. He also had a harris in the back right broken tan roof with two Asawira's, a doctorup top and a spitefire just down below along with Leila Sharif beside the doctor. There was also two Shujae in the back center near an a obvious Ghulam Lt, a flash bot far right, and camo token CoC atop the building, which I never touched because it blended in with all of the Daylami Camo tokens scattered on rooftops.

    First turn, I suffer two tokens lost in my first group. Following the impetuous phase, I toss some smoke on the right and move monks up. Then I turn to the pickle I'm in, because I got over half a fire team and a daylami staring at Knauf for an ARO. So I activate the Liberto, charging him down the allyway. He gets discovered but keeps moving. I use him again, and his shotgun manages to down the Yara Haddad and the doctor who was the leader of the fire team. Liberto dies in the process, but his success was the highlight of the game. My friend hates him now, because a similar thing happened in our last game with Liberto. I then have Knauf pick off the remaining core members that were on the big square roof, as well as the one Daylami there. Next I moved the Blue wolf up safely and position him under the bridge and behind the building along with two monks. With my final orders (thanks NCO) I reveal the Hac Tao and charge him forward, spending the rest of the turn pushing all the way up the allyway to see the lone Ghulam hidden around the corner. I down him, thinking I put him into LoL, but it turns out he got a CoC camo duded. Either way, this is the best start I've ever had on him in our games.

    His first turn, down 4 orders plus a Daylami, he moves some tokens into the main group and tries to push back. He sends some daylami up the right, downing a monk with a shotgun and then my Blue Wolf with a panzerfaust. He huddles around his harris, shoring up the defense for the Hac Tao that can see into his backline from the far left, of which he managed to scare away as I dodge back into cover from some shots. He then runs a Shujae to the right and command tokens it and the other Shujae fending of my Hac Tao into suppression mode so it can cover my TAG's body, and so my 2nd turn begins.

    After a monk throws smoke down the suppressed allyway, I run my engineer up, heal the Blue Wolf up, and my TAG slams into covers. I also score an objective point with my Hac Tao with my classified. I spend a few orders and command I then trade some blows with the Asawiras harris with my Blue Wolf. My Hac Tao also has a piece, completely ignoring the suppressive Shujae as he plows into the harris. I down Leila but the Asawiras keep tanking the damage in both encounters, and when they did go unconscious their regeneration brought them back. They were a tough group to handle especially when my Blue Wolf and Hac Tao were both at one wound left effectively at the end of the blows. I also throw a monk forward who miraculously survives multiple shots at him before finally going down just as he kicks the shit out of a daylami.

    His 2nd turn kicked in, and with an aggressive push his Shujae goes toe to toe with the weakened Hac Tao. I dodge, moving back a bit away outside of LoF from the Asawiras. He keeps it up, and eventually both Hac Tao and Shujae go down with their templates. He spends some time picking Leila up and tries to push guys forward in prep of the last turn.

    My 3rd turn, and after playing many games against my Haqq foe, I run my doctor forward on the left allyway. A gap is covered by the remaining Shujae in suppression ally on the far fight, and I'm worried about the two Flammenspeer. I use my bounty hunter with the panzerfaust, and while I lost him in the second exchange they had he managed to expend both flammenspeer uses. The doctor runs forward unhindered as a submachinegun Shujae stares angrily. I really want to pick up the bounty hunter, but I only had a few orders left. I ignore him and keep sprinting for the Hac Tao. Successfully, I pick him up, and they both retreat back at a distance not worth the harris persuing (just above where the flame templates end but behind the corner). He spends his final turn running guys forward to my DZ, managing to kill my Chief Jeong, and my doctor while my Blue Wolf makes some marvelous saving throws that kept him in.

    In the end, I moved my Hac Tao too far back, putting him in the center instead of zone instead of his side, of which I dominated. He had ran one of the Asawira to my first zone, counting that my TAG was in the center zone with the Hac Tao. But lo, he shared the zone with the Blue Wolf, and he wept at the point difference. All in all, it was a total win on my end which rarely happens in our games, so it felt pretty good. The Liberto was an absolute champ breaking up the fireteam, and the Blue Wolf had some great saving throws. The Hac Tao which I rarely used put some work in, and my doctor finally managed to pass a WIP check for once.
     
  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Firefight was still the mission in rotation for the week and wound up playing the same opponent. Adjusted the list a little so I could get a Liu Xing in.

    [​IMG]

    Camera was unfortunately blurry as fuck for some reason

    Opponent dropped WinterFo, my first time seeing them in person. I was aware that the sectorial is very much a blunt instrument. I was aware that they give up basically any kind of hidden shenanigans and with no AD troops and all of a Kunai for hidden deployment. That said, Hac Tao does not really like shooting into Mimetic MSV targets, and they had alot of those which made breaking the reforming links kind of an ass to do. Nisse MSR being joined by the FB Karhu was a prick to try and crack into.

    However the weakness to all these super value shooters is they're all 1W, with WinterFo's HI/TAG options being more plain in nature, there's no crazy shit like core linking Mimetism -6 Vostoks or Cutters dumping big vis MODs on your army. A Winter force leaning into maximum value of the Karhu etc does run into the issue if they need to push into CQB they are really not a huge fan of 5pt retards with chain rifles and other such cheap nasty shit.

    I was going first and I identified my opponent's LT right off the bat and managed to sneak the Liu Xing into his DZ on an auto pass drop, my opponent had fucked up and pushed his Fugazi network too far forward greedy for 24" range bands.

    I've used the Liu Xing a few times now and I'm starting to come to the train of thought that core linked mimetic targets are just slightly a bit too much for him to tackle and he should focus on trying to bully easier targets for the most part for more consistent results. I have a bad habit of seeing red when I identify an LT and trying too hard to kill it, especially when it's a mission objective. The Liu Xing ended up dieing while trying to bring down the Nisse LT. If I'd slowed down a bit I could've gone around the other side of the building first and picked off Richard Quinn, which would've been a much easier target to bring down than the Nisse LT, then come back to him once he'd lost his fireteam BS bonus.

    Realistically though I should've just chilled the fuck out and not gone for the drop on turn one. I should've concentrated on the fact that army points killed is the primary objective, just used the Hac Tao to snipe a couple of Fugazi, pick off a Nokken with a Ninja then run the hell away. With no visible AROs worth any points beyond the 7pt Chaiyi I could've forced my opponent into pushing up on me instead once I was ahead on points, and given he was running 1W models making him run into hidden AROs plus a mess of warband chain rifles probably would've worked heavily in my favour before dropping behind him.

    As it was I got the Liu Xing killed turn 1 and then put the game's pace firmly in my opponent's control and he did the smart thing and just battened down the hatches dropping mines everywhere and forced me to try to crack open his MSV/Mimetism riddled super defense core link, which the Hac Tao struggled with. Mistakes were made and my opponent was conservative and rode the game out to secure a win.
     
    #31 Triumph, Oct 20, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the report and lessons learned!
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It was an unfortunate realisation I did the exact thing I advised the same opponent not to do in our previous game.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Finally getting around to writing about a game I had on Sunday. Again IA but against Hassassin. Prettiy fun game playing Supplies from the book. This time I tried out the Hulang SMG/Madtraps and the Mowang again because I didn't get to use him much in the last game.

    This to note for my list. I still don't like the Hulang. He doesn't seem to do one thing well and he so expensive for it! I would have been better off with a third Zhencha or a Liu Xing. The Kolas were good and did cause him to pause for a bit and eat an order to get rid of one of them. But a camo state and mines would have been better for the most part.

    The Mowang was great. He took over a supply box and was really hard to kill. I used a proxy and don't' actually like the figure. Looking for a proxy for him. But for rules he's not bad at all.

    Lei gong was pretty good at getting rid of some camo Daylami but was unlucky against a "Nothere" flamenspear.

    Sadly a loss to IA but it was really close. It came down to the last order of a Farzan getting to a box. But this was after his Barid shot a pitcher and immobilized my Haidao so he could do it. The Haidao BTS 0 sucks!

    Notes on Hassasins: Nadhir and Shujae are hard to deal with without MSV. If you know you are going up against HB, take as much MSV as you can.

    upload_2020-10-23_8-59-25.png
     
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  15. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Did you feel order starved bringing a 10 unit list up against Bahram who I would imagine was running closer to 15?
     
  16. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible Officer

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    Yeah, that's going to be a bit rough. Haidao MSV2 is probably going to be used on reactive, which leaves us with our combat REMs and Lei Gong to deal with ODD at range. I almost feel like our best bet is to just dice it down with linked HMG fire - which to be fair with a core is roughly 60-20 odds in good range/cover against an ODD target. The odds go way down if you're only in a Haris though.
     
  17. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Actually no. I thought It would be but it wasn't bad. It was mitigated by having troops already up the board, NCO mowang using 2 lt. Orders was good to.
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Had a tournament, finished 5 of 12. Might do a longer write up but some reflections:

    • Having Cheong in Duo with Guijia is really strong - because of the Repeater.
    • Cheong doesn't typically get left behind THAT much, but it does slow the jumping jack Guijia down a bit.
    • Ideally place Cheong where the Gujia can't see him all that well.
    • Two Zhanshi hackers is the minimum when running Guijia. Makes counter-possession much more likely.
    • Krit. Is. Awesome. He was stopped by a TR HMG that sadly my list couldn't dominate and my dice utterly refused to let me kill, but Krit FD profile has the kit to dominate a battle.
    • Krit's best friend is a Son-Bae.
    • Unrelated, it takes 5 Guided Missiles to kill McMurrough :p
    • Further unrelated to Krit's Repeaters sitting near all central objectives and Krit's EM Mines cluttering the midfield, it takes only two Guided missiles to remove most of an Evader link - even when the dice have decided they should tank 6 (!) AP BTS saves
    • Krit looting +4 ARM from a Panoply is almost as hilarious as the fact that Cheong is not hackable.
    • Two Guijia beats one McMurrough - even though the dice might hate you and you might lose one of them doing it.
    • Killing McMurrough in melee isn't the brightest decision when the werewolf is pinned down by ARO fire in the far corner of the table - but it's cool AF.
     
    #38 Mahtamori, Oct 25, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  19. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Glad to hear those combos worked out well @Mahtamori ! How did the Guijia itself do?

    Re: Cheong, the removal of the Blackout hacking program is ever-more-keenly evident as a bad idea, the more non-hackable repeater troops appear in the game.
    (Man, I hate the removal of most hacking programs. If I only played games in a local meta, I would definitely houserule most of the hacking programs back into existence. Stuff like Blackout didn't come up too often, but was super useful in those moments, with very little cognitive cost for having to remember it exists.)
     
  20. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    @Triumph reports with good analysis of mistakes like that are really good learning tools. +1 thanks for sharing that.
     
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