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Dodging templates through zero visibility zones

Discussion in 'Rules' started by RobertShepherd, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    If a model is a target of a BS attack through a zero visibility zone, and is facing the attacker, and the BS attack uses a template (impact or direct), what penalty does a normal trooper take to a dodge roll in reactive?

    E.g. a wildcat heavy rocket launcher fires an impact template at an enemy trooper through a smoke template. Does the enemy trooper suffer a -3 for dodging a template from outside LOF, or no penalty per the rules for responding to BS attacks through zero vis zones?
     
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  2. JudgeDee7

    JudgeDee7 Member

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    As far as I understand and have seen in games, dodging against a template shooting you through smoke is taken at a -3 modifier. I have only seen this in action with Direct Templates through smoke, such as a Lu Duan shooting a HF through smoke. I imagine it would work the same way for impact templates.
     
  3. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Couldn't say for sure, but here's my take on first reading:

    - Template rule is ambiguous.
    - Dodge rule is unambiguous - the Important box says "a -3 PH mod must be applied... if Dodging a template weapon without LoF to the attacker.
    - Zero Vis Zone rule says if you're targeted by a BS attack through smoke, your ARO options are to shoot back with a -6 mod, or dodge "without the mod."

    Conclusion: "The mod" referred to in the zero vis zone rule is the -6 mod you would suffer if you shot back. If you dodge, you don't suffer that mod, but you do suffer the -3 mod which the Dodge rule says must be applied since you're dodging a template weapon without LoF.
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    @QueensGambit playing the Devil's lawyer;

    Since Dodge normally do not have a MOD that applies to BS Attack that you state Dodge does not need to add, would you say that you need to apply a -6 to a skill that does not require LOF when shot through smoke since that part of the same sentence do not have that exception? I.e. a Hacker Alguacile shot by a Hsien through smoke can BS Attack at -6, Dodge at -3 or Oblivion at -6

    However, in this situation, the Skills the target can declare in ARO, or as the second Short Skill of their Order, are limited to BS Attack with a -6 MOD, Dodge without the MOD, or any Skill that doesn't require LoF <no reference to how to treat the MOD here>.
     
  5. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    @Mahtamori that's some quality Devil's advocacy :-)

    Earlier in the ZVZ there's another bullet point that reads "any Skill, Special Skill or piece of Equipment that requires LoF, except Dodge, and is declared from, into, or through a Visibility Zone suffers a MOD to the relevant Attribute in the required Roll."

    So the later bullet point is describing what that mod is, but the earlier bullet makes clear that the mod applies to "any Skill, Special Skill or piece of Equipment that requires LoF, except Dodge." So, not Oblivion since it doesn't require LoF.
     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Heh, you have me convinced. Now to break this to the local meta a day before a tournament (and resist the urge to switch to playing ISS)...
     
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