How is a "Fireteam of X" defined?

I'd argue there really isn't. The S is literally only there because the unit entry is called "Unidron Batdroids".

Fair enough, there isn't a fireteam core skill. Although I'm not quite sure what your point is here? Are you suggesting that you don't need at least one member who's capable of forming a core?

Maybe it would help if you gave a specific fireteam composition example?

 

Possibly, probably, but not absolutely definitely, and if we're calling out WIldcard and counts as anyway, might as well stick the explanation in for "can be part of" as well that way all 3 of N4s mixed team versions are covered.

 

"Counts as" is definitely somewhat ambiguous. But the rest are pretty well explained between the rules annex and the sectorial charts.

 

I was responding to your suggestion that the problem is solved by the fact that Unidrons have the fireteam: core skill and Legates don't. Which isn't the case, there is no such skill.

I don't think "one member who's capable of forming a core" is a concept that exists in the rules. A group of troopers together are, or are not, capable of forming a core.

In contrast, there's a specific skill called Fireteam: Haris, and for a group of troopers to be capable of forming a Haris, one of the Requirements is that at least one of those troopers must have the Fireteam: Haris skill. So there's a sense in which it would be accurate to say that a Haris must have "at least one member who's capable of forming a haris," but the rules don't contain any analogous concept for a core.

You can read in that concept - and as I said earlier, that's how it worked in N3, that's how I think CB intends it to work in N4, and that's how I plan to play it unless it's ruled otherwise. But it's not actually in the N4 rules.

 

Except it does in the sense that you can't form a core fireteam without at least one member from a unit that's allowed to do so on the sectorial chart. Or, potentially, a unit that "counts as" one of those units.

In this specific example you can't form a "Fireteam:Core of Unidron Batdroids" for Legates or Nexus Operatives to join without at least one Unidron being present to start with.

Otherwise it wouldn't be a Unidron Batdroids fireteam in the first place. Or actually any kind of fireteam as Legates and Nexus Operatives lack fireteam options of their own.

 

"Counts as" isn't ambiguous in this case, but "can be part of" is...

That's were it all falls apart. There's no definition of "can be part of". You or I might interpret it as a sub-set of wildcard, meaning that you still need a member of the unit, or a counts as a member of the unit to do it, but someone else might come along and say "can be part of" is the same as counting as, so 2 Kriza's 2 stemplers and Kovaks are a core of hollowmen because krizas and stemplers can be part of one, and nothing says they actually have to have a hollowman to be part of that core...

Simply changing the box on page 5 to read "When creating a Fireteam that includes Wildcard Troopers, or Troopers that Can be part of another unit's fireteam, the player must include at least one Trooper from the Units listed for that Fireteam in the Sectorial chart, or a Trooper that counts as a member of one of those Units." would plug the gap.

 

I'd actually argue the exact opposite. "can be part of" is straightforward because you can't be part of a fireteam that doesn't exist. You couldn't form a Hollowman link in the first place without at least one Hollowman.

The reason "counts as" gets ambiguous is because, using a modification of your example, 2 Krizas, 2 Stemplers and Perseus might be a legit Hollowman core because Perseus counting as a Hollowman may be enough to form a core fireteam of Hollowmen even though none are actually present.

My gut feeling is that "counts as" isn't intended to go that far but it could do with clarification.

 

That's exactly the question posed in this thread. Presupposing the answer in order to arrive at that answer is circular, unfortunately.

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Legates have the fireteam option "Special." The central question of this thread is what exactly that means.

 

It actually says in the wildcard red box that it does go that far:

"When creating a Fireteam that includes Wildcard Troopers, the player must include at least one Trooper from the Units listed for that Fireteam in the Sectorial chart, or a Trooper that counts as a member of one of those Units"

So right now as written the Perseus fireteam actually works...

 

I’d like some clarity on this as well, but let’s please agree to not base arguments on whether the singular or plural form is used. Take for example the phrase “one or more Fusiliers”. It uses a plural form because that is how English grammar works, but one singular Fusilier is still accurately described by that wording.

 

I get what you’re saying, but we’re dipping dangerously close to philosophy here. How many cards need to be in a pile before it becomes a pile of cards? Maybe it’s just a form of madness induced by too many years as a computer programmer, but I have no problem contemplating a pile which is composed of a single card.

 

See, I think of the plural as referring to the fact that the fireteam contains multiple troopers. "A fireteam of Unidron" sounds odd, no? I don't think this title is meant to contain composition rules content, as fireteam composition is defined elsewhere in the sectorial chart.

 

It really seems like this discussion can't go any further until we get some sort of clarification. @ijw @HellLois