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New To Yu Jing - Are Invincibles Any Good?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by sololobo, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    Hi, so I am a Haqq player and I am considering picking up the Invincible Army due to Rhama failing to meet my expectations.

    I am thinking The Invincible Army may make up for Rhama in that they provide a plethora of wounds, attack vectors i.e. mid field presence and alpha strike capabilities, and the ability to manage the emerging armor meta of rival TAGs and HI.

    Also, can I reach 15 slots or is this a 10 slot sectorial.

    And, even though I have reviewed all profiles I want to hear from you on the changes N4 blessed or cursed you with.

    Looking from the outside in the sectoral looks playable; however, others may feel extremely opposed to that thought. Playable in casual, but not competitive or vise versa. Please let me know your thoughts.

    Thank you!
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how Ramah plays nor what your disappointments are with it, but Invincibles are decent now in N4 as long as your expectation isn't to have a good mid field presence - it's a hot candidate for the worst mid-field presence of all sectorials I would say (and by that I mean I don't know if there even are any other candidates)
     
  3. SpectralOwl

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    You can play Invincibles at 10 orders or higher at your option, but be aware individual troop quality starts to slip if you really go for 15; you need to include a lot of REMs and probably take the Zhanshi Core. A HI Haris is still very possible with the full Tactical Window, however.
     
  4. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Sval and NCA would like a word. I'd take a Zhencha over a scrub without a Marker any day.
     
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  5. SpectralOwl

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    Peacemakers are quite good and NCA doesn't exist at the moment, which is why I didn't raise objections in my earlier response. SWF can at least bring a lot of Nokken, as shoddy as they are.

    On the topic of Invincibles, their big gimmick is getting tons of Orders into one group. If you want one Fireteam doing all the work, this is definitely a dream Rambo sectorial, but it seems to be tricky to pilot against some lists and there aren't enough points in a game to cover the whole spread of IA's many weaknesses, so you need to be able to tell what you're getting into with a given opponent. If you want to play casually though, it's great, biggest meme of a Sectorial out there.
     
  6. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    N4 is a great time to get into IA imo:

    - Chung Hee is a super useful addition and Krit has his place now, too
    - Liu Xing have been fixed
    - Daoying hacker LT is no longer a must-take, but still viable
    - Hac Tao NCO is a great rambo piece when going for a LI core
    - Hulang have seen some interesting tweaks
    - Zhencha are now shock immune
    - Shang Ji are awesome now
     
  7. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I think this is the only competition Morat Aggression Force reliably wins.
     
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  8. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    @sololobo They are a pretty Frontload sectorial.
    Very flexible fireteams, access to extra orders on the primary group above 10 and they carry potent weaponry.
    But.... they're really hard to get to competitive level because they have a lot of weakspots. not too good at Hacking, vulnerable on CC, pretty bad Zone denial defense, They run Low on troops that impose BS negative modifiers to the enemy little MSV options, and you need to have countermeasures to break that gap and take decisions to avoid falling on ground you're on disadvantage. Direct templates, tinbots, hulang inside fireteams...
     
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  9. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    So, the are a more classic brick type of play trying to shove 10 HI down someone’s throat.

    I noticed there hacking and counter hacking was lacking, but does BTS 9 assist with this or its to no avail in a dedicated HD list.

    I can see the zone issue, but IMO IA has the best drop trooper in the game. That is one of the major draws for me to play this sectorial.

    It seems like most of this factions problems come from MI to LI troops. Is it possible to simply focus on bringing more blast weapons to manage these natural shortcomings?
     
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  10. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    Buuuurn!!! haha I think if I have the option of a signature I’ll add this as it.
     
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  11. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible Officer

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    The thing is, because of the points costs of most of IA's troops, whatever weakness you try to cover will come at the cost of something else. You can pack a bunch of templates, but they all come on our more expensive HI profiles or characters.
     
  12. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    Wait, they got a new AD?
     
  13. SpectralOwl

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    Or the Pangguling FTO with its Light Shotgun. You are still right about the inability to cover everything though; just being really safe against top-end Hacking will eat half your point pool.
    Nope, same old Liu Xing that was complained about all of last edition. Difference is that it lands very reliably with Combat Jump now, and isn't quite so incompetent in CC that Fusiliers are a credible threat.
     
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  14. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    Nope, most of this faction problems come from a too straight forward approach (without profile finesse) and Wound/order concentration.
    • Orders being clustered makes them more easily reachable for the enemy, less orders that takes to reach and shoot them.
    • Altered states, AP, DA, EXP, K1, T2, EM plasma, High burst weapons.... All of those easily bypass the "durability" of the faction.
    • The cost is the other drawback. more cost, less troops with tricks up on their sleeve, less chances for taking up the advantage, less chances of having the specialized troop where you need it.
    • Half-assed resistance. Other factions have 2 unconscious states on reactive troops (something that make them more akin to survive), linked doctors inside fireteams, unhackable and E/M resistant engineers,... We have 25-42p hackable and EM vulnerable engineers, Cube+piloted TAGs, NWI 1W HIs, and paramedics on our fireteams of PH 11 or 12. It seems it's a sin to repeat healing rolls and to try to resist a heavy negative status effect based list
    • Lone Infiltrators hackable and with almost no self protection on midtable that cost 35-42 points with decent BS but mainly +0 range bands on 40s (what's the point of this if you'll need to move half the table into repeater zones and mines to reach your mark?). The result is a neglected midtable. The enemy can take advantage of the +0 rangeband of our reactive and chose without interference the best path or strategy to hunt us down
    I'm of the opinion that IA needs some puntual changes to be rounded up to be competitive on tournaments
    • Yanhuos need a second Unconscious state and courage to be reliable enough to be of reactive use
    • Krit FTO needs at least to be veteran (or maybe EM inmune) to work properly on a fireteam without been nulified with a EM grenades or an oblivion.
    • Haidao engineer, combi and Red fury profiles need some spice. for example an MSV1 to be interesting as wildcards. Plus, I'm pro giving engineer haidao the superjump skill to make it an excelent choice to be a guijia bodyguard
    • Daoying non LT profiles need some spice too (counterinteligence, Chain of command, forward deployment, sensor...)
    • Zencha desperately needs a combi+mines+Minelayer profile or even a decoy one
    • TaiSheng needs some grenades back. Maybe better in a grenade launcher
     
    #14 Mc_Clane, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  15. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    PSA: Mowang have Stealth.
     
  16. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    Imao, Invencible is better than ever. Very funny to play and with his old n3 weak porfiles fixed.

    Krit now works very good as an alternative to Tai Sheng. The zencha is a real HI, the liu Xing got better on his own amd for cheap support and the hac tao is evem stronger. The Hulang FTO is really isful as link complement. The haidao hacker with tinbot is still one of the best hacker killers in the game.

    Is true that like rammah the mid field presence isn't very strong but all the other aspects work prety well. Other aspect i love is that now you have tons of combinations between core Hi, haris Hi or LI link and rambos.

    Good time to go with IA in my opinion
    Edit: i forgot a linkable guided missile launcher that can get markmanship with an EVO
     
    #16 krossaks, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The hackable nature of the Zhencha (and Daofei for Vanilla/WB) is a big deal. They start closer to the enemy, and pay a huge extra premium (more than light infantry skirmishers) for their infiltration and as such are more exposed to hacking while it's costlier to position where it matters less. Home zone hackable troops will be inconvenienced by hackers, but aren't playing oracle to try and avoid it.
    That's not quite the biggest issue, though, it's the cost of the sectorial. While a Zhencha is one of the more expensive "skirmishers", the rest of the sectorial is also expensive meaning it's harder to get workable alternatives into a list without huge concessions elsewhere, so typically a Zhencha has to choose whether to play the assassin or the button pusher in my experience, without a back up for either role the way a cheaper regular Skirmisher could.

    To be perfectly clear; this is not where the strength of this sectorial lies, this is specifically one of it's biggest weaknesses.
    (The biggest strength is in the variety and completeness (except for a grenade launcher) on the heavy infantry that starts in the home sector.)

    Oh god, no. I'll give @Teslarod creds for finding harsh competition and possibly the winner in Svalarheima, but Morat's Zerat is a Locust on crack. While the Zerat doesn't have WildParrots, it is a fully fledged and feature complete skirmisher.
    Add to it that they are Veterans and do not care one iota about when their Hacker profiles get Isolated (as in they don't get Isolated), a Heavy Pistol to complement the Multi Sniper nicely and a flamer on several profiles, I think they are good enough to carry the skirmisher game to a new level if you just give them a chance and don't find them the first MSV2 to run in front of.
     
    #17 Mahtamori, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  18. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    It has no protection from warbands though, or even a means to slow them down. No marker state or terrain skill to put it somewhere safe. It will cop a DTW when LOS is obtained, and if that wasn't enough to finish the job, it will be erased in CC on the next order. Add to that there will almost never be more than one and nothing else in the mid field to help it. It's a case of go first or go down. SWF can at least pew pew the midfield from relative safety with Kunai SMR.
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Bringing a Kunai out of Hidden using a cheap warband is a reward of its own, but nothing is preventing you from providing covering fire using a Yaogat or other trooper to prevent easy access to the Zerat if that's a priority. Warbands are no longer quite the same silver bullet, though, when they will be somewhat order starved in the new edition's standard format. I've been peeking in the CA forums where people have been (unsuccessfully) trying to point out to IJW how bad Yaogat and Zerat are :p

    That said, Zhencha are better than either Zerat or Locuts, IMO, but also much easier (less costly) to defend against.
     
  20. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    That B4 Yaogat MSR is fucking scary. Burst 4 DA gun isn't a fucking joke.
     
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