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Invincible Army Tactica N4 (WIP)

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Greysturm, Oct 7, 2020.

  1. EpicDiceFail

    EpicDiceFail Patron Saint of Horrible Dice

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    Curious as to what’s better than TaiShen?
     
  2. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible Officer

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    He probably means Krit, who's not only cheaper but is an Engineer, or alternately packs a scarier gun with his Feuerbach. Tai was unique for her tinbot + NCO, but Shang Jesus is here now, and Tai Sheng's MK12 profile lost the stun grenades that made it unique. Also, her Flash Pulse no longer gets a burst benefit from fireteams.

    edit: The MK12 profile is still a solid midrange shooter imo
     
    #42 Paegis, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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  3. EpicDiceFail

    EpicDiceFail Patron Saint of Horrible Dice

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    Good to know. Been out of the game for a while, so getting back into YuJing AND N4 is going to be some learning curves.
     
  4. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    What Paegis said. Tai is still solid-ish, but if you are looking at using an NCO inside the link Krit adds some benefits for a lower price. Engineer, two interesting weapons to use and D-Charges, means that he can actually accomplish more objectives if the mission requires it while still kicking rearbuts. TaiShen is also an especialist (Forward Observer) but Krit can remove IMM states if you can keep him save from EM ammunition.

    In the current environment of no crits and heavy armor, it LOOKS like (preliminar, we need to run more N4) the Feuerbach´s or MULTI special ammunitions will be more useful than Tai´s MK12.

    Her Breaker Combi Profile is only a bit better vs enemies with low BTS, but Krit has a MULTI Rifle (+1 dmg) capable of AP round at higher damage 14.
    Her MK12 is Damage 15 Burst 4 in a link, but Krit´s Feuerbach is Damage 14 Burst 3 AP+DA (in a link), has longer positive rangebands and in the short distances Krit has DUAL Heavy Pistols (+1B over TaiShen).

    So profile wise... I think Krit is better in all aspects except for the BS14.

    The one argument against Krit is that we actually have OTHER good wildcard Engineers to join a link, like the HaiDao or excellent Mr Jeong, which means that you could go with Tai instead...
     
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  5. infyrana

    infyrana Well-Known Member

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    Are there times when you might run both Tai Sheng and Krit together? I was looking at their models and thought they would make great Zuyong proxies whilst building up a collection alongside the blister packs like Zencha, Daoying, Haidao and Hulang.
     
  6. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    They are great Zuyong Proxies!

    I don´t really see a link where I would run BOTH, because for those points I would rather include a ShanJi, a Hulang or a cheaper Zuyong... two NCOs will fight to use the Lt Orders.
     
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  7. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    Regarding the NCO talk:

    I said this in another thread, but if you guys are as blind as me this might help: Mowang has Stealth. Nice surprise for me.
     
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  8. EpicDiceFail

    EpicDiceFail Patron Saint of Horrible Dice

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    Ahhhh, I see....Again, I have so much reading to do and diving into these profiles...Thank you for the feedback.
     
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  9. DropTiger

    DropTiger New Member

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    Really excited about this tactics write up even though I mostly lurk here. Infinity has has a revival among my friends group and as IA is my primary army, I like to see what the community is thinking on N4 plus I’m really rusty on the rules doesn’t help matters.

    I personally would like to see discussions on individual profiles. As an example, why is the Zuyong with Regen recommended? Feels like the option to gain or lose a wound on a 12? is rough and equivalent of playing with fire.

    is the Spitfire the best load out for Mowang? I just played vs Militant Orders with a Mowang with Multirifle and it felt okay but not super powerful.

    also a breakdown of what good ARO pieces are and what are good attack pieces? The list I ran yesterday didn’t have much after I lost my Mowang and my Zuyong HMG(Tac Awareness) to a very lucky Crusader Brethren with Spitfire. That left me with a Daoying LT sniper, 3 zuyongs(boarding shotgun, combirifle, and missile launcher), and a Haidao Sniper, and a Liu Xing that failed his PH roll to wreck havoc in his backfield.
     
  10. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible Officer

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    I don't tend to see the Zuyong with Regen very often, but it's particularly useful with our poor access to doctors and paramedics since an unconscious model is often as good as dead in IA. We have so many NWI models as well, it kind of further disincentivizes taking a doctor. 60% isn't particularly reliable odds, but it's powerful if it works.

    I typically see people go for the Red Fury. It's cheaper in points and SWC and trades 1 damage for shock. In general, I find the Mowang is at its best hunting light targets. None of its weapons are very good against armor besides the Multi Rifle and losing the extra range and burst hurts. With armored targets being more prevalent, maybe the rifle will be better.

    Typically, our go-to ARO pieces are TR bots, a linked Haidao MSV2, a linked Son-Bae or a linked Shang Ji HRL. We do have the Zuyong ML as well, though it was pretty rare in N3 - maybe it'll see more use in N4 since missiles are more valuable against hard targets. The Haidao sniper is our best ARO piece IMO.

    My go-to attackers are the Rui Shi combat REM because it's fast, packs MSV2 and is cheap enough that I don't feel bad when I lose it, and the Liu Xing. I'd recommend you try and walk the Liu Xing on in general unless you see a really juicy landing spot or you've got an EVO for Controlled Jump. In addition, the Lu Duan go some buffs in N4 and it's definitely worth a try.

    I've also found the Mowang, anybody packing a 24"+ range weapon in at least haris (Zuyong/Shang Ji HMG, Lei Gong SMR or Tai Sheng MK12) and the HMG Hac Tao to be very effective attackers as well. You might also find occasions where a Zhencha can find a gap in enemy lines with its mobility and wreak some havoc, then retreat to a rooftop in marker state.
     
  11. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible Officer

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    @Greysturm An eventual characters section in the guide might be nice. IA's characters do some pretty unique things within the faction.
     
  12. Greysturm

    Greysturm Invincible Army Drill Sergeant/Military Theorist

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    I recomended it as a solo piece, the reasons mainly is that it can go do its own thing without so much support (or the heavy investement of other attack pieces). You wont be able to have your medic all over the table even with his bots so having a decent fast attack piece capable of selfhealing is a net gain for your support network.

    As they said it really depends what your going against, the multi is better against heavy targets if you can close the range gap, the red fury is better against single wound infantry and the spitfire is the middle of the road aproach. In all cases as stated in the tactica the mowang shines in suppresive fire and all 3 variants are capable of it, also dont forget to use the other limited weapons as you close the distance.


    I eventually plan to add it although i havent had much time to work on it lately.
     
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  13. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    I've considered putting the Regen HMG Zuyong in a FT alongside a ML Zuyong, for the express purpose of multiple long-range AROs, a B2 HMG ARO alongside something else isn't terrible, and regeneration means he has a chance of popping back up in your next active turn, ready to go with the rest of the FT. Even if he mostly gives your opponent a reason to split burst in active between ML and HMG, or focus extra Orders on him to make sure he *stays* down, that regeneration seems like it may come in handy.

    I'd really appreciate it if the tactica posts included specific tools for dealing with certain kinds of enemy troops, equipment, or factions. It's nice to know thoughts on unit strengths and weaknesses, but I'd love to see something breaking down what a faction's best options are for a particular problem, such as camo spam or lots of mimetic gunfighters.
     
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  14. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    Welcome! Adding my 2cents:

    Good that a new edition makes learning the rules a fresh experience for all of us!

    As about individual profiles, and we will dump our mostly passionated answer based solely on experiences :)

    My own:
    - I have never seen the Zuyong Regen recommended, outside of CodeOne. Regen made the self-heal roll automatic and out of the actual play sequence, which means that unlike N3 it is "free". So, there are quite nice odds of getting the Zuyong back up "for free" at the end of your turn (the States phase). Is it really recommended thou? Perhaps as a solo piece as mentioned, but for 1 point more you get the Tactical Awareness HMG and he has an extra order. Which in this game, is much better IMHO. I also do not agree that we have bad paramedics; the Zuyong paramedic can link with the HMG and heal him on 12s!
    - Mowang, my go-to choice has always been the Redfury. No SWC, decent rangebands for pushing to the midfield, Shock to kill skirmishers... as a light-SK hunter, he doesn´t need the AP ammo, and Strength 14 over 13 is not THAT needed. So, Redfury. Save the SWC for other guys that will hunt big game in the middle, like Krit or the Hulang. MO is a bad matchup for a Mowang, unfortunately, unless he was guarding a quadrant in suppresive in short firelines.

    - ARO pieces: Linked HaiDao is one of the premier Snipers in the game. You can also link a ShanJi HRL (extra order, expensive, but resilient!), a Zuyong ML (less resilient, not that order efficient IMO) or a SonBae (can be repaired, crumbles like paper).
    - Attack pieces: The HacTao HMG now with NCO! -- this one is one of the best solo attack pieces ever. Linked ShanJi AP HMG is super solid (and solo he can work great too!). Mowang and Zencha for light game hunting in the midfield.
    Krit and Hulang FD have interesting tools for bringing down armored pieces, with different approaches to dealing to enemy armor (one can use EM Mines and Repeaters so sinergizes well with Hacker IMM'ing the enemy so he can shotgun or D-Charge them, the other is a good CC piece with Monofilament CC.
     
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  15. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    The more I play and figure out what is universally effective and desirable in N4 the more I look at things that wreck Visorless, low PH, low CC capability Links by default.
    Despite the (slight) price cut IA has trouble dealing with stuff.

    With NCA coming back and bringing another Sectorial heavy on Hidden Deployment (template)AROs fairly soon and Tohaa bringing Makauls for easy Eclipse into CC on top of K1, I'm not sure if IA is in a good place for N4.
     
  16. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I share your view on the "N4 good things". However, the way I see it, IA seems to have tools to fight those:
    • Hulang has good CC and is linkable
    • Shang Ji have really good PH
    • Haidao MSR is a staple and comes with a MSV2, and Lei Gong has a MSV1
    Maybe they're not optimal, but they exist.
     
    #56 Joametz, Oct 29, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  17. LeGweg

    LeGweg Lucky dice roller

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    Just wanted to add some bits to what have been said about Tai Sheng:

    - The presence of new NCOs (Hac Tao & Krit) made the speciality of Tai a bit less unique. You need to consider her other tools rather than just NCO.
    - Chung-Hee Jeong. With repeater, engineer and being unhackable, he's really interesting in fireteams. With his profile already in a fireteam, many advantages of Krit are redundant and makes tai a better choice.
    - Tai brings Forward observer, wich synergize well with the Son-Bae Wildcard. With spotlight in ARO, Son Bae could be used frequently.
    - Chain of command is available on Haidaos and Lei Gong, Tai being able to wrap this with NCO (one of the main strength of the faction) makes her a safer NCO than Krit regarding loss of lieutenant.
    - Breaker combi rifle targets BTS, making her a better offensive piece against low-BTS armies such as any ariadna-foes. She is the only profile in the whole faction bringing this weapon.
    - Inside a Zuyong Haris, profiles able to overlap skills are important. The ability to bring NCO+Firewall-6 is still unique.

    ->Objectively, Krit brings more for less points. But in regard of what the faction can bring, and how you build it, Tai still have a lot of utility, it's just not an auto-include anymore (wich is sign of healthy list building).

    About Mowang profiles:

    - Multi Rifle is economic choice with 41pts on a 2W+NWI model.... with a flammenspear able to wreck fireteams. Remember that it's the only AP weapon on the Mowang. If you want to hunt a high armored unit, he brings terrain(Total), stealth, mimetism -3 and NCO to crawl up the board.
    - Red Fury is really good. With permissive rangebands and the Akrylat, this profile is polyvalent and is the most used with good reasons.
    - Spitfire is better in N4 IMO. The high presence of shock immunity and the better Damage makes this weapon more lethal than red fury against HI targets. And most of the attack pieces are HI. This profile also brings Flammenspear, making it the most brutal of the Mowangs.
    - Each loadout now have a "Non-NCO / Non-Lieutenant" profile. It's cheaper AND allows to have a Lieutenant that is not desgnated by the list building itself.

    ->I really think that Spitfire Mowang is stronger in N4 than in N3, but the Red Fury is still great. I like the flammenspear loadouts because I alwways make him duo with Panggulings, it allows to recharge easily and bring more "Circular templates fire ammunition".
     
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  18. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    Also worth mentioning that main draw of red fury on mowang was -1 swc compared to spitfire, now it's only -0.5 swc. And we don't pay swc for daoying hacker anymore. And some other units went down in swc. In n3 I always struggled to choose which heavy weapons to take while in n4 I made few IA list without maxed swc.
     
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  19. Greysturm

    Greysturm Invincible Army Drill Sergeant/Military Theorist

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    Remotes are mostly up, hopefully ill finish them and the Guijia by next week and then i can go into characters.
     
  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Supplying another list idea, this time trying to make a list that's as balanced with opportunities as possible while being adapted to a more TAG-intense meta. It doesn't feature much in the way of infiltration nor AD, but honestly - that's hard with a TAG eating points.

    Balanced
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    GŪIJIĂ MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower / DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 82)
    [​IMG] GŪIJIĂ PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    CHIEF JEONG K1 Combi Rifle, AP Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
    DĀOYĪNG (Lieutenant [+1 Order], Hacker, Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 30)
    KOKRAM (Forward Deployment [+8"], Minelayer) Heavy Shotgun, E/Mitter, E/M Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 41)
    YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
    ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
    ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle, Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1
    HÙSÒNG Yaókòng Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 24)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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