1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Notable big changes

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by QueensGambit, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. 28mmLlama

    28mmLlama New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2020
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    1
    They have Shock Immunity :)

    Edit: Sorry, you said "Initially" .. Doh!
     
  2. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    145
    The nerf to jumping 4 or 6 inches straight up is a loss, but a reasonable one. My issue with the change to super-jump is that it needs some clarification. There's an example of what should be a basic use for it in the book (jumping over a wall thats higher than S2 with 4 inches of movement) that isnt allowed under the current wording.

    As for the overall nerfs, I think the biggest one is the Nahab being split into separate profiles for infiltration and parachutist. In N3, it was common to infiltrate going first and AD going second, or to base the decision off of good locations to put it. In N4, it's still a perfectly viable trooper to take, but lost a big part of its versatility. On top of that, Tarik, who was already generally not worth taking, lost a lot of gunfighting capability for a little bit of melee and only got slightly cheaper, while everything else in his price range gor significant improvements or price drops.

    Dont get me wrong, it's not all negative. Yara Haddad is a very efficient addition to our mixed core. Carmen, who was already in most of my lists, inexplicably got much better. Both flavors of Janissaries were buffed and got a haris option. Sure, the doctor got worse, but Rouhani can join them now, so that's a net win.

    Some of the complaints about Ramah have been comparisons to what QK are expected to get, and I can understand that to an extent. The most improved Ramah units of N4 have been the Jamissaries, and especially the Hortlaks. Assuming that QK get Hortlaks in N4, they can build lists with similar teams to what I've been working with. Without significant overhaul, however, QK won't have access to anywhere near as good of solo pieces as Ramah does.
     
  3. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    We’ll have to agree to disagree on Tarik being worth taking, but it’s really important to bear in mind that the other units that you’re talking about are almost universally Hackable.
     
  4. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    One of the things I am noticing is the limited hacking support in RTF (in comparison to vanilla). It might be an option to focus on our non hackable units. The Khawarijs Haris of Doctor, HRL, and NCO Mk12 seems like a great versatile squad.


    I am still determining what ranged support I should use. It is nice now to have 4 separate options for a BS 14 HMG, even if 3 are hackable...Maybe i should explore the Ghulam HMG...
     
  5. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    145
    That's a good point about hackability. I still would have expected more of a drop for Tarik, especially with losing Fatality, but it does explain it.

    For something long-ranged like an HMG, I wouldn't worry too much about hackability. Unless you're really pushing with it, your opponent will have to put a considerable amount of work into hacking them. That's not to say that it's impossible or that it's not worth it for your opponent to do, but rather that you're pretty unlikely to get blown out by hacking. Personally, I've been favoring a long-range haris of a Janissary HMG, a Hortlak AP sniper, and either Leila or Rouhani as cheap filler and support. If you're really worried about getting hacked, you could run a similar setup of Zhayedans. That would cost significantly less and the HMG puts up slightly better numbers, but at a big loss of durability. Alternatively, a Ghulam core made up of actual Ghulams, notably the HMG you mentioned, isn't a bad pick.
     
    Brokenwolf likes this.
  6. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Well, we all know Fatality L2 was substantially undercosted in N3, so seeing around 10% drops on some of Tarik's options is still pretty big.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  7. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    73
    In the forum there are two types of haqqislam players, those who play tournaments and those who play for fun with friends, this is not any kind of offense.

    That is why I, who am a tournament player in N3, with more than 100 games in them, looked like haqqislam was missing something, It was saved by the muttawia and the FAT (2), but now a days these things past away.

    So now with some games, I'm telling you my point because my friend circle are a tournament players too so they play extremely well, and I notice that haqqislam don't reach the level to face them (other armys I mean(playing against CA, yu jing, ariadna, spiral/toha, nomads and the sectorials insite)), We do not have the necessary tools to do what others can.

    This is my point of veiw of these weeks, I may wrong, or I may not.
     
    CabalTrainee and Urobros like this.
  8. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    1,674
    I think I'm both. I also think I'm not the only one here, who enjoys funny games with friends, but also from time to time takes a bit more optimized armylist to a big tournament.
    And I like to think that I'm not a bad player, playing Vanilla got 5th place two times in Poland's masterships with few dozens of players from Poland, Czech, Latvia et cetera.

    And I definitely didn't base the power of my army on Ghazis (never used 4 until the last N3 tournament, that I won) or on Tarik (used him few times, but preferred army with Saladin LT). My first N4 tournament is next Sunday and I'm rather positive about it. As I am for most of the Haqq's changes, seeing some new interesting units, new options for Vanilla, for Hassassins and even for Ramah.
    But maybe I'm just too optimistic?...

    Being honest, @Fenrir, the way you write about all of this makes your statements a bit more silly - no offence.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
  9. Redfaint

    Redfaint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2018
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    100
    Does anyone know how long it will be before we get djabel with continuous damage?
     
    Urobros likes this.
  10. exiti

    exiti Mad Scientist Gorilla

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    48
    Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only Haqq player that didn't base their army on Mutt's. For your information, I play mainly tournaments (Vanilla, Ramah, and Hassassin) as the local Infinity group in my area dissipated. So the changes to Mutt's haven't affected my list building so far.
    My issue lies with the a unit that didn't get much change at all the Ayyar.
     
    #150 exiti, Oct 14, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
    Urobros and Knauf like this.
  11. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    This is indeed a sad thing to see. They lost Free Agent and gained Stealth instead, but that's hardly a fix. Not to mention that they got no point changes. Oh wait, the sniper and the MMR got one point more expensive.

    Did Holoprojector change significantly in N4? On first glance, it looks pretty much the same.

    Veteran would have been nice to mitigate enemy hacking and jammers, Forward Deployment would have been great to leverage those nice Viral Pistols more easily, get to objectives and clear out mines with holoechoes more efficiently. Anything better than a regular Rifle/Sniper rifle would have helped as well.

    I've always compared the Ayyar to the Shikami in the sense that they are a fairly standard HI chassis that starts in your deployment zone and needs considerable order investment to get to perform their particular shtick. For the Shikami thats CQC with high mobility and for the Ayyar it's Surprise Attack -6.

    The Shikami has been addressed in N4, but the Ayyar appears to have been forgotten.
     
    #151 Knauf, Oct 14, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
    Brokenwolf likes this.
  12. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    The Ayyar is a weird one. It seems like CB places a premium price on HI Holoprojectors (see the PanO Knight of the Holy Sepulchre). Maybe with the model limit it will be of help clearing Mines and deployables? Stealth helps it get through repeater nets as well. Its main issue is that it compares very poorly to the Asawira which it cheaper and it lacks a scary gun.
     
  13. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    The sniper got Surprise Shot (-6)

    It now reactivates in every States Phase, which means even if you get discovered/revealed in ARO you can reactivate it at the end of the enemy turn and get another Surprise Attack.

    Not big buffs, I'll grant you, would have liked an AP MMR tbh.
     
    Knauf likes this.
  14. exiti

    exiti Mad Scientist Gorilla

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    48
    It almost feels like the Ayyar would benefit from infiltration but instead it just sits in a weird place.
     
  15. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    1,791
    I'm not sure "we all" is correct here given that F2, if I remember correctly, was essentially +1.5 BS unless shooting at very bad targets you shouldn't really shoot given a choice, which is less than mimetism which costed what, about 1-3 points?
     
  16. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Mimetism -3 was and still is undercosted. No point in comparing any skill to that. Fat2 was basically free for Sheskiin, can't remember if Tarik got it for free when they introduced that skill to the game. I believe he did, but I am not 100% sure.
     
  17. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Statistically it was about the same as having Mimetism if the user was already in good range bands, and went up in value (a lot) as the MODs got worse. In terms of cost, as far as I remember, Tarik went down in points when he got Fat2, but that was at the same time as several other changes he received.
     
  18. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    145
    It went up in relative difference as the shots got worse, but I'm not sure it went up in value. As an extreme example, it made a really big difference when shooting into a sniper outside of 32". But that was still a terrible shot you wouldn't want to take. That's the biggest reason I felt Fat2 was overrated. It made bad shots less bad, but it didnt make them good.
     
    Barrogh likes this.
  19. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    My bet... late november/earlier december, with the second wave :D

    This one of the good things about "infinity", not every place play the same. What your rivals play and how most of tables are configured do a lot on how we build our list. In our local meta, @Fenrir and mine it was almost crazy not to place the little guy. Still, I had really good games having only one or two. And if LI, them I could play with them.

    The problem isn't if some people did a lot of use of them, is what CB has done with them. Nobody could deny that the profile was in need of a revision, but in N4 it looks like "Ghazys" have recived all of the "rebuilds" they can, not one single but all... So, this was a little too excesive, I think. I never understood why CB added smoke to the profile for free. The multiplicy of Ghazys profiles is something really good, but with the disposable 2 is now excesive. This would be something really needed in N3, but not in N4.

    But, no more Ghazys, welcomme Daylamis. I'am pretty sure right now they are a mistake in the profiles, the camo option has the same point cost as the "regular" one: 6 points, probably will go up until 7 or 8 in next Army...

    Ayar was one profile I used to play a lot in Hassasin, specially when I face a 200 points tournament or a LI one. It was there when the Ayr could do (to me) an excellent job, but right now, having to face more heavy targets cheaper than before with a troup not cheap than in N3, even more expensive... I don't understand waht CB have here in mind.

    Yes, in N4 the Holos come back in the states phase, but sometimes this is a double edge blade because you become more vulnerable to some template weapons, or you place at view the real figure... The -6 it could be something great, but not with a "snipper" burst 2. With not "real ammo" it has little possibilities to do harm, and to catch something "cheap" and fragile we have another options in "hassasin", "vainilla" or "ramah".

    Maybe it is only me that I need to find again how to use this profile, but I'am more negative in this matter this time.
     
  20. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Then you didn’t run the numbers. You wouldn’t want to try N3 Tarik in bad range against a linked Kamau Sniper, and due to BS13 he wasn’t as good as Sheskiin, but against almost anything else without full Fireteam bonuses he was usually on at least 40% to wound.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation