After reading the Double Shot rule (p. 152) that applies to Chest Mines and Minelayer, and then reviewing the rules in both the main rulebook and the Fireteams annex, I'm really not clear on how we're supposed to treat Disposable weapons when the profile includes (+1B) on them. Specifically, I'm thinking of the Yaofang Long Ya, which has Panzerfaust (+1B), Flammenspeer (+1B) on every profile. Double Shot specifies that if you use B2 with the weapon and it's Disposable (2), you expend both shots at one time. The fireteam rules specify the same, if you use the +1B on a model in a 4+ member fireteam you expend both shots of a Disposable(2) weapon. However, both of those rules appear optional—Double Shot says you "can" apply the bonus, and so does the Burst Support Bonus rule for fireteams. Conversely, the text on pages 75 and 81 of the rulebook say "will be" and "must" when discussing (+1B) as a feature of a troop profile, so it appears obligatory except in cases where more than one such MOD applies, in which case you have to pick one that then overrides the other(s). However, neither the Disposable rule (p. 152) nor the various instances about (+1B) specify whether firing a Disposable (2) (+1B) weapon expends both charges or not. Plus, the example on p. 81 very specifically says that the (+1B) profile modifier is only for active turn shooting. So I think that the intent is as follows: Double Shot + Disposable (2), OR Fireteam Burst Bonus + Disposable (2): You may optionally fire both shots with a single Order, giving the weapon B2. Each point of Burst expends one use, so after your first B1 shot, the weapon effectively loses Double Shot until you can reload from Baggage. Weapon (+1B) + Disposable (2): The weapon is obligatorily B2 for attacks in the Active turn, and each B2 shot expends one use of the weapon, so it can be fired twice at B2 in active before becoming Unloaded. (Conjectural, but predicated on the idea that (+1B) is mostly representative of dual weapons in N3, and that if the intent were to single-shot at B2 it would make more sense to give the weapon Double Shot on the profile instead of +1B.) However, that leaves the question of what happens when you fire once in ARO (B1) and once in active (B2). Do you then have the ability to shoot only in ARO until you reload, using the same logic as Double Shot and the Fireteam Burst Bonus? Or are you Unloaded because you've used the weapon twice, and the ARO just "loses" 1B worth of ammunition? (I'd presume the latter for balance/simplicity, but...) Weapon (+1B) + Fireteam Burst Bonus + Disposable (2): I don't think this is possible right now. If it were, the Burst modifiers would (currently) stack, but how? Can anyone shed some light on this interaction? Thanks!
In N3 I recall you were explicitly allowed to shoot with less than your full burst. But I can't find the rule now. If we could find it, then we could see whether it's likely to carry over into N4. If that rule still applies in N4, then I think the answer to your question is: the +1B trait means that you "must" have a panzerfaust with a B attribute of 2, but you can still choose to only fire one shot and expend one round from your B2 panzerfaust. That would be my preferred outcome, and I suspect the intended outcome, but without being able to find the N3 rule I certainly can't claim it's a definitive answer.
Well, on p. 43 of N4, the first sentence under Burst reads "In Infinity N4, when a Trooper performs an Attack during their Active Turn they may roll as many dice as indicated by their Weapon or piece of Equipment." (Emphasis mine.) Here's another way to think of this question: If (+1B) on a Disposable (2) weapon profile means "you may fire at B2, but doing so expends both uses and the weapon is Unloaded" then why does Double Shot exist? It would be simpler to add "If a Disposable weapon has Burst 2 or higher, each die rolled for Burst expends one use" to the Disposable weapon rule, and give Chest Mines and Minelayer B2 natively. The fact that the Disposable rule doesn't say this, and the places that tell you "using extra Burst uses more shots from the Disposable weapon and Unloads it faster" are in the Double Shot and Fireteam rules is...weird...if the intent is that using extra Burst on a Disposable weapon should always result in expending more shots.
I guess the question is, is “Panzerfaust (+1B)” a single panzerfaust that shoots twice as fast, or is it more equivalent to having two panzerfäuste (each with two uses) that you’re firing in a linked manner?
I presumed the latter, but the game's N4 mechanics don't distinguish between those (Kriza is not HMGs Akimbo), which is why my first post includes:
I think RAI is that Disposable (2) means two "uses" and with Burst we're not literally counting ammo or projectiles fired. IMO +1B means an abstract better chance at a hit (one attack die more), not necessarily more ammo used. Of course, some weapons achieve "accuracy by volume" (hello, Mr. Kriza!), but it could just as well mean a targeting system in action. Like, Panzerfaust could mean something like an AT-4 launcher nowadays and Panzerfaust (+1B) mean a fire-and-forget system like NLAW. You get two uses of each with Disposable (2). And on ARO you just don't have the time to set up the shot with the guiding systems, you get a chance to take snap shots at the enemy making his way over to you, so you're always B1. Still use up one Disposable token.
Good question. I hadn't noticed Double Shot exists (Maggie just got better!) This, combined with what seems to be a wording change from N3 removing the language permitting using less than full burst, is enough to persuade me that you're required to use your full burst. And on your second question - if the Panzerfaust has already used up one rocket in ARO, in your active turn can you fire the one remaining rocket or can you not fire at all since your burst is 2... I have no idea :-(
I'm not sure I agree that this is intended, but I can't find anything that disputes this is what's written in the rules (unless it's got Double Shot). Blitzens and Panzerfausts in Fireteams just got scarier.
Exactly because of "counting ammo" introducing this kind of sillyness, I'm of the opinion that the rule was N4-simplified and fully means "uses of a weapon" now. One shot ARO, two-shot Active, irrelevant.
See Wes’ first post, for Fireteams it’s spelled out that using the Burst bonus uses up an additional Disposable use. For weapons or units with (+1 Burst), and for Enhanced Reaction, I’m waiting for clarification but that’s likely to be several days.
With that I expect all of them to be the same, it'd be silly not to, but B1 on B2 weapons because of Disposable (1) being left on a trooper is silly as well. I don't like this at all.
I think there is needed an official statement, but I see it like this: When you declare the shot, you indicate the type of ammunition, the burst and the objectives. Therefore all the disposable ammunition necessary to carry out the burst is used up. If there is not enough ammo? it must not be possible to fire the missing shots. The rest sounds to me like the typical intent to abuse rules "unwritten". A statement from CB regarding this and others similar attempts to exploit rules is needed.
The problem is that there would then be no difference between "Double Shot", "(+1 B)", and just giving the weapon 2 burst in the first place. The fact that all three of these things exist at least implies that there should be some difference.
Doubleshot vs B2 is another thread. +1 B on disposable weapons is a distinct category, because that’s a per-unit modifier. It’s cleaner to be able to give one unit a higher burst version of a weapon instead of having to make a new weapon profile with higher B for every case.
Yup, I got the two threads confused. Was thinking about having +1 B on chest mines instead of PFs or FSs.
