Yan Huo Neurocinetics +1B

Discussion in '[Archived]: N4 Rules' started by Icchan, Oct 11, 2020.

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  1. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not convinced the "fixed" Yan Huo neurocinetics works as intended. Even though the burst bonus is now written on the special skill, it's still a burst bonus and they are only applied on the active turn. So ruled as written, Yan Huo neurocinetics has burst 2 in active turn and burst 1 in reactive turn.

    So I'd propose a slight change in the Neurocinetics skill: Make it swap the active and reactive turn burst, so in reactive its burst will if it were in active turn and vice versa. That way you'd still get the +1B bonus and active turn burst would 1.

    Please poke holes in this idea (which is not mine, came from a friend. If the idea is good, I don't want credit for it).
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    As it stands, I'm not sure that the rules were made to allow for this profile, so it might be better to redesign the unit.

    (Like having the MHMG and LT MHMG have Neurocinetics instead)
     
  3. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member

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    What sort of problems you think would come from rewriting the rule to make you want to make such a drastic change on the profile?
     
  4. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    I think the difficulty will be convincing the people involved in writing the rules that the current rules don’t say that. That is, convince them that the people claiming the current wording doesn’t work aren’t being overly pedantic.
     
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yan Huo as a unit is under-performing unless it's the HRMC profile which is occupying a very specific and slim niche, primarily because the HRMC and MHMG are stupidly expensive weapons compared to AP HMGs.

    If they do want to maintain the current fairly crummy unit as it is intended to work, I think they're better off just making a new weapon for it. Like a High Capacity Missile Launcher or something like that.

    That would be fair criticism if CB didn't have both a long and current history of writing rules that relies on pedantry.
     
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  6. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member

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    If anything, the Multi HMG is overpriced, but the HRMC Yan Huo is vastly underpriced. It's a BS14 DAM 15 burst 5 AP shooter with 2 wounds and 5 ARM for 48 points.
    A Kriza Borac is BS13 DAM 15 burst 5 (but no AP or any other ammo) shooter with 2 wounds, 5 ARM and mimetism -3 for 54 points. Kriza Borac is paying through its nose for that mimetism that has less functionality in N4 than in N3.

    But regarding the rewriting, CB itself has said they're now fully embracing the living rulebook paradigm.
    Also I'm of the opinion that when rules and profiles cause weird interactions, priority should be on fixing the rules. This'll open the window for future possible profiles, rather than going back on the profiles to conform with the rules.
     
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  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    And higher BTS (especially against hacking) and higher PH for Dodging and CCing and better at CC if forced to and +1 B on the Heavy Pistol and Terrain Total.
    But like I wrote, the HRMC has a slim niche where it's decent (it's really slim, though) while the other loadouts are ailing. I think now in N4 the HMG Kriza and HRMC Yan Huo are fairly equal when you take price into account.

    The restrictions on Burst are hard to find, it's certainly not listed everywhere where the rules are dealing with burst nor reactive turn, it's first on page 81 under equipment that I find the restriction.
    I'm wondering if Double Shot would work in reactive turn or if that falls foul of the red box on page 81 as well.
     
  8. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't the skill double shot apply to both active and reactive turns for the b2? If so, give this skill to them instead of +1b on his missle launcher.
     
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  9. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Just give it total reaction. B2 active, B2 reactive. Problem solved, and the meta does not change one little bit.
     
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  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Still doesn't change that a bonus of +1 B gets deactivated in reactive
     
  11. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Not if the +1B stayed on the missile launcher like the other yanhuo ML profiles.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Page 81

    IMPORTANT
    If these Modifiers (MODs) affect Burst (B), they are only applied during the
    Active Turn. Troopers with more than one of these MODs may only apply one of
    them at a time.
    Though I do think Missile Launcher (Double Shot) would work quite well
     
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  13. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    You could just change the loadout to Missile Launcher [B=2]. This way, it's not a modifier and the interaction with Neurokinetics is unambiguous. This kind of formatting is also present in other cases, so it should be easy to understand.
     
    #13 Knauf, Oct 11, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  14. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's better than any idea I had. I think they should have distinguish between modifiers on weapons and modifiers on profiles for the rule @Mahtamori pointed out though.

     
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