Yeah i was assuming Stealth in it but you cant really do that anymore. That means that 6th Sense can always delay against a Camo state in its ZoC essentially?
I think so, yes. But if the Camo doesn't reveal for its second skill, you lose your ARO. In N3 you could "delay using sixth sense" instead of "delay against camo" and then get an ARO regardless. In N4, there is no "delay using sixth sense." The sixth sense guy can "delay against camo" so they then only get to ARO if the camo reveals.
No, it's OK, I read it all, but it didn't sink in until my...third or fourth re-read? I had a general impression that the clause about declaring all of the details of a Skill when you declare it, which also applies to AROs AFAIK. Part of that impression extended to the idea that if you declared an ARO at the first opportunity, but it wasn't valid based on positions/circumstances at that time, it turned into an Idle. I was reading Step 5 as, basically, "check AROs declared during Step 2 to see if they were valid at the time, if not they Idle; then check AROs declared during Step 4 to see if they were valid at the time, and if not they Idle." This is based somewhat on thinking of ZoC as being a "range" and comparable to the range bands of a weapon, and drawing a parallel between "I declared a BS attack at this point in movement but it turned out to be out of range, so I Idled" and determining ZoC coverage in ARO. It finally clicked into place that: If either of the Active Trooper's declared Short Skills fulfills the ARO requirements by Step 5 the ARO is validated, regardless of whether it was declared in Step 2 or Step 4, and... All the possible valid* ZoC, no-LoF AROs lose the possibility of a "gotcha" under that reading. I don't think I'm alone in struggling with that mental switch-over, based on reading various threads here and on Facebook, but once the idea snapped into focus it cleared up a lot of my issues with the reasoning that underpins why/how some troopers basically get to guess whether they will be granted an ARO. I appreciate the amount of time you've been putting in here and elsewhere, and your patience with responding to a lot of variations on assorted questions in multiple places. *Sort of, because of stuff like this: Holomask and Killer Hacking
Hello, sorry, but maybe I'am not understanding this correctly because I'm not english native, but, if we have to check the requisites in the "step 6" (at least 6º in the spanish version) of resolution order, why I have to check the LdT requisite when I declare the ARO? This sound like do the job twice and then the "step 6" have no sense. As writen we have to check the requesites in resolution step, so I could declare something which it could be invalidad in the "first half order" but become "valid" after the second half order declaration, then, in resolution time, I will check if I grant or not the requisites, what is exactly the rule said. Sorry, but it has no sense "validate the requisites in declaration time" and again "in resolution time", this pretty much what I understand you are saying. They are some kind of missing text lost in the rulebook?
I was wondering the same thing, that "clarification" makes things ... worse, a list of abusive plays come to mind.
It's there. It's like Infinity 101 Then in step 5 you check if the declaration is valid. And in this LoF MAY NOT be involved
I'll take this in English as I am not proficient in Spanish; On Page 21 we find the rules relevant in the IMPORTANT box: IMPORTANT All details and choices related to the execution of a Short Skill, Short Movement Skill, Entire Order Skill or ARO must be specified when it is declared. For instance, if you declare a movement, specify the entire route; if you declare a BS Attack, specify which Weapon will be used, who the targets are, where the Trooper shoots from, how the Burst is divided, etc. If the Player declares a Skill and, during the Resolution step, he realizes the Requirements are not met, then the Skill is cancelled and the Trooper is considered to have performed an Idle, so they still generate AROs, and lose the ammunition or equipment used, if they declared the use of a Disposable weapon or piece of Equipment. So, as you can see, you need to give all details regarding a skill when you declare it. When relevant, this includes stuff like from where you make the action (f.ex. when you are hacking a target) or what LOF you use (f.ex. when you declare BS Attack) and if you have higher burst than 1 how you split this among what targets. Requirements checking in step 6 is literally checking requirements. Those are not the same as the details listed, requirements tend to be trivial to check in many cases so they won't be much of an issue, but they can still sometimes trip you up at this step. I'll use Cybermask as example; CYBERMASK ENTIRE ORDER NFB, No Roll. REQUIREMENTS ► The user must be outside the LoF of enemy Markers or Troopers. As you can see, the requirements for Cybermask is that you're outside LOF of the trooper or Marker, and usually you've been able to check this at declaration, but you might be playing fast and loose with LOF checking and missed an enemy, or the opponent might have revealed a unit in Hidden Deployment that will fail this skill declaration at this step. So yes, you can declare invalid skills at any step of the way; but you still have to give all details when you declare those skills and things such as LOF is determined as existing between two game elements so you can't ever use hypothetical specifications that haven't happened - but you can declare skills that are blatantly invalid such as Trinity versus a non-hacker, because the target being a Hacker isn't part of the details of the skill, it is part of the Requirements! Hence you can Trinity stuff you think might be in Holomask ;) When it comes to validation; remember that there are some skills that don't require a specific target such as Dodge, so you don't need to specify where the opponent is when you declare Dodge; hence we have step 6 as being the only time we check Zone of Control and may find that an enemy's second Short Skill movement might have made the requirements for Dodge valid when it is checked. DODGE SHORT SKILL / ARO Movement REQUIREMENTS Troopers can only Dodge if at least one of these is true: ► They are the Active Trooper. ► In the Reactive Turn, they have a valid ARO. ► They are affected by a Template Weapon.
@Mahtamori thanks for the clarification, I wrote too fast and I didn't notice that I mixed a few things. Sorry. Thanks.
