Specifically about Decoy and Camouflaged troops. If I am reading decoy correctly the Camo Decoys for Camo Troops are Camo 0. I read it this way because other rules, like with mines, specify they exact Camo Marker types. On the other hand different parts of the rules for decoy say "replicate". but nowhere in the text does it specifically say that Decoys will use the same camo marker as the troop. What are your thoughts on this? is this listed specifically anywhere else in the rules?
I think the plainest way of putting it is to ask "What's the Silhouette value of the other two Camo markers?" You'll notice that the rules text doesn't explicitly state that, either, but in order for a reasonable result, it has to be the same as the user. Then consider the fact that you're putting down three markers: Decoy Marker 1 (a Camo marker) Decoy Marker 2 (a Camo marker) Camo(-X) marker and while secretly recording which of those three markers is the actual trooper. For instance, you write down that Decoy Marker 2 (which is a Camo marker) is the actual trooper. The actual trooper has Mimetism(-X). So that marker has to be Camo(-X) and the other Camo(-X) marker isn't a Camo(-X) marker, and the world explodes. The alternative is that when the rules say: If the user is Deployed in Marker form instead of as a Model, for example in Camouflaged or Impersonation States, the player will place (CAMO) and (IMP) Markers on the table instead of the Decoy Markers. you should realize that you're placing the same markers (with the same S and Mimetism values).
What Solkan said. You’re putting down 2 or 3 identical Camouflaged Markers. It can’t say (Camo (-3)) because that depends on the unit, not the Decoy rule.
but what will happen if you try to discover a decoy? will you get -3 to discover? unit underneath the decoy doesn't posses the -3 mimetism skill.
I would say (at least on my reading) is that the camo markers all look the same, but when you go to discover a decoy you do not suffer the -3. The Marker is the same, but its the skill not the marker that actually modifies the the dice roll.
Thanks for the clarification. Thats how i was reading it. I didnt expect it to say out down a camo -3 marker, but i did expect it to say put identical camo markers. Unfortunately it just says camo. Which had me worried.
There's no such thing as a Camo Marker which says "-X" on it that's actually -Y on it. Seriously, the point of the big red note about what the Decoy marker doesn't duplicate is that there's states and skills that the decoy markers have to duplicate passively.
The big red box doesn't mention skills at all, you're making an assumption that it duplicates them passively but there is nothing in the rules that says they do. I don't think its as clear cut as you are making out and I'd certainly prefer CB to clarify.
That was my concern too. Other rules will clearly define the Type of camo marker. best i can guess is because this doesn’t clearly define it, it copies.
Decoy also states that the decoys replicate State Tokens of the user. Is this just at deployment and then they stay that way until revealed as the decoy is a static element? Or do the decoys State Tokens change actively with the user? For example, every time the user goes prone or stands up do the decoys do the same?
That is my reading as well, another player in my group reads it as actively changing States to match the user. As a deployment skill it seems that it would only replicate states when deployed.
I think there is just a "hole" in the definition of Decoy skill. The more reasonable thing to do is falling back on N3 interpretation rather than doing something that is non sense. ->Decoy is meant to confuse the shooter between two targets If the decoy is not taking the mimetism -X of the trooper, you can easily guess the identity just with public information of mimetism value. In this case, there won't be mimetism troopers with decoy, it will miss the whole purpose of decoy skill. This is why I think decoy got the same mimetism as the trooper. The best would be an official FAQ specifying this behavior and other unpredicted shadowy rule points
Have you seen the new Camo Markers from C1/N4? They have that little colored circle with a beautiful -3 or -6 printed within. If you copy THAT Camo Marker, you copy THAT Camo Marker.
for me i believed It sould be placed same camo token. Cause i beleved in red warning they intentionally left the word "skill" out. So it sill also copy mimetism which allow camo-3/+6 right. But I have more question If i deploy normal decoy i need to place decoy token in the table, So player know exactly where my decoy is but not sure which one is real. But if I use camo, Is it mean that i just put 2(or3) camo token and doesn't have to annouce that this are decoy right(incase i have other camo unit around there too)?
Right, just like N3 Ambush Camo, you place two camo markers privately noting down which is the trooper and which is the decoy.
So, it seems decided that you get to claim the same MOD as the original Camo Marker but that means that this is still at question: Does it work like N3 Holo where you got to claim the MOD but not actually benefit from it? Or like N3 Ambush Camo where the extra Camo markers got to benefit from the MOD?
I'd say if I have a trooper with Mimetism -6, Camouflage, Decoy and Minelayer (AP Mines), he deploys as three tokens: Camo (-6), that's himself Camo (-6), that's the decoy Camo (-3), that's the mine The Mine has predefined skill Mimetism -3, so that's not an issue. The Camo value of the Decoy token is copied from the trooper token (-6). However, the Decoy does not have a Skill (but I think it should copy it from the Trooper). Therefore: you Discover my trooper at -6 you Discover his mine at -3 and you Discover the Decoy at 0 It's a pretty easy way to tell Decoys from the real thing, unfortunately. In one swoop CB did away with the N3 way of telling the Decoy from the trooper (Decoys weren't troopers so couldn't Prone or be Unloaded, now they replicate States of the trooper) and created a new one. The above is RAW, I hope RAI was that the Decoy would also be Discovered at the Trooper's Mimetism rating and I hope @ijw can clarify this.
