1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Zero pain is useless

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Henshini, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    239
    Looks like they didn’t fix defensive/white hacking devices in this edition. Zero pain will never be used as no one will ever choose to hack the zero pain users. Some of them can’t even be targeted by anything other than spotlight due to not even being hackers.

    I suggest they be allowed to aro when the target of a hacking attack is in their hacking area. Give the poor tohaa a break, you stole all their nullifiers.
     
    #1 Henshini, Oct 11, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
    Zewrath, meikyoushisui, WiT? and 2 others like this.
  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,556
    Likes Received:
    3,509
    then it's already done it's job.

    pretty sure this isnt true. care to provide an example?
     
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    4,237
    Likes Received:
    9,555
    I think the only unit I saw Zero Pain on was the Wardriver, but it also got the Hacker skill. So basically they gave it a vulnerability, and a single defense against it - but one that wouldn't be even needed, if it wasn't a hacker in the first place.

    I strongly agree with this.
     
    Devil_Tiger and WiT? like this.
  4. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    239
    Could have sworn the Tagmaa was like that, must have been one of the many early typos, my bad.
     
  5. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    239
    I think that’s a better way of expressing how useless it is than what I tried to say.
     
  6. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,556
    Likes Received:
    3,509
    okay - but the wardriver is still a hacker for relevant cards and mission objectives.
    for what it's worth the wardriver pays maybe a point for the hacker/zero pain? not exactly a bad deal
     
    Cthulhu363, Aldo, Solar and 4 others like this.
  7. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    It works against comms attacks like Jammer too.
     
  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Regarding the actual Program, rather than units that used to have White/Defensive Hacking Devices, Zero Pain is also an upgrade program on Zoe.
     
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    They can. Zoe can certainly declare Zero Pain when Pi-well is in a enemy Hacker's Hacking Area. Quite often it's even the right choice. Zero Pain on Zoe is entirely useful at keeping her alive / a pain for enemy Hackers to deal with (particularly when covered by other KHDs).

    The same is true for Wardrivers and similar: it allows you to take a Hacker for objective duty without needing to worry overly about their increased vulnerability as they have a strong and cheap mitigation measure.
     
    Hachiman Taro and Tourniquet like this.
  10. Sedral

    Sedral Jīnshān Task Force Officier

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1,216
    It's the same argument over and again. Everytime the whole "defensive hacking device" argument came up, people forgot to look at what faction they were found it, and it's the same for the zero pain upgrade in N4: you'll mostly found it on hackers in faction who have a very poor hacking game, like ariadna (wardriver) or tohaa/spiral corps (Tagmaa). Only exception I've seen so far is Zoe.

    Since N3 hacking has been a number game. The best way to keep your hacker safe is to have 3 or 4 of them ready to attack the second an ennemy hacker walks in a repeater, and therefore have repeaters all over the place so that your hackers can protect each other. Obviously factions who have access to little to no repeaters and hackers can't do that, so giving them zero pain help those faction play the hacking game/use hackers for objectives.

    I don't understand why the wardrivers needs 2 separate profile though. Why not just give zero pain upgrade to the hacking device and be done with it?
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    That was a request that Zero Pain can be used to defend targets other than the Hacker.
     
  12. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    239
    As you’ve said, it’s only found where the factions hacking game is week. I play tohaa/spiral corps, and with the loss of nullifiers in N4, our 2 hackable HI have become significantly more vulnerable. I was hoping zero pain would have filled in that gap, rather than “we grant you the rank of hacker, but not a seat in the hacking meta game”.
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  13. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    8,073
    From your initial post, I thought you were saying that Zero Pain was like the N3 defensive programs where they could not be declared in most cases due to poorly worded timing constraints. This is definitely not the case in N4.
     
    Barrogh, inane.imp, Savnock and 2 others like this.
  14. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    1,492
    Likes Received:
    1,656
    Good, that means it's doing what it's meant to do, being a deterrant for enemy hackers.

    You have other tools for dealing with enemy hackers, primarily impersonators and Pheroware/symbio-bombs.
     
  15. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    239
    It’s not really a deterrent like the old reflector program was though. It’s a mediocre chance to cancel a hack. As far as modern missions go, you’re better off grabbing any other specialist, as this one just has a chance to pull a few extra aros. The defensive hackers were added in the first paradiso, where some missions could only be done by hackers. Infinity has changed and deleting the defensive/white hackers would have gone basically unnoticed as far as competitive games go.
     
  16. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    1,492
    Likes Received:
    1,656
    you said yourself;


    If no-one is hacking them because of the presence of ZP then it is deterring them from hacking that piece, at least on real hackers anyway.
     
  17. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    239
    No one choses to fo and drop guided missiles on fusiliers either, I wouldn’t say they deter it, it’s just not the target guided missiles are suited to.
     
  18. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    8,073
    If you move a ZP hacker in my hacking area, I'll still throw a hacking ARO your way and force you to spend your second skill on Zero Pain.
     
    inane.imp, Savnock and Hannibaliafun like this.
  19. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    That depends on the mission. If ITS12 has the same ‘get a +3 MOD and make two Rolls’ bonus for having the right kind of Specialist, having a Hacker is going to be useful.
     
  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    But you probably don't hunt them down with a KHD either.
     
    toadchild likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation