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Tao of Tunguska

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by natetehaggresar, Feb 20, 2019.

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  1. Kreggurree

    Kreggurree New Member

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    Well I had my first game with TJC. 200pts vs Imperial Secret Service playing supremacy.

    This was my list:
    1st TJC
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10
    SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    SECURITATE (Repeater) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    SPEKTR Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Cybermines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    INTERVENTOR Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    PERSEUS FTO (Fireteam: Haris) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / 2 Pistols, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    STEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18)
    1.5 SWC | 200 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    It ended up as a tie. It was an enjoyable game which could have gone either way each turn. With fun moments such as his crane agent walking through my Securitate repeaters zone of control, and my Interventor managing to isolate him.
     
  2. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    So how is everyone feeling about TJC?

    To me, it feels like we got a lot of good things coming into N4. I feel like list diversification will start to appear other than the standard HM core.

    The Infowar game is really becoming TJC’s strong point now. A lot of factions are going to have to play carefully into TJC. Even Ariadna and LI factions will have to be careful of getting hit with spotlight through a repeater network. Spotlight combined with our new fancy Grenzer is looking at BS 22 shots.

    Kriza now gets a useful Haris option that can actually bring a specialist!

    I also think the new Puppetmaster/Puppetbot rules can make a nice new combo unit. Haven’t tried it yet, but I see the new hacker PM with a RF/Ap Marksmen rifle a unique duo.
     
  3. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    I feel that TJC is in a good place in N4.

    The addition of Cheerkillers, Wildcards, and new fireteam options has opened up its list building options exponentially. It used to be argued on here that there were only 3 list templates to base the faction around, and while I disagreed with that opinion; there were definitely fewer options than exist in N4.

    Our Infowar will have significantly more reactive turn impact with the changes to Targeted, but we lost some anti-hacker potential due to the loss of Lightning on Mary and the Interventor. TJC are not slackers in the anti-hacking game just not nearly as likely to survive being attacked by a KHD as we were in N3. Many other Killer Hackers can get firewall mods by being in a fire team and it seems to me like an intentional and obvious exclusion that Interventors cannot. Those mods will drive our anti-hacking down when TJC has to face off versus that combo. That said, TJC hackers are generally active turn monsters with fantastic access to various Repeaters and the Trinity (-3) on the Interventor KHD is pretty amazing through a Pitcher.

    The Kriza's loss of FA and getting Mimetism (-3) will situationally make him more useful, if less unique. Dodging with its movement in response to a BS attack is going to make him a lot more survivable IMO. His Fire Team options are decent now and Burst 6 is going to be a consistently good attack with Mimetism (-3) and +3 BS. I will probably end up taking the Kriza more in N4 than in N3.

    Puppets are nearly on par with the posthumans now, possibly even stronger in a lot of circumstances. The SF at deployment is a gimmick that will often not be more useful than denying orders, but the fact that they can all go on SF with one order is incredible. Puppets are nearly at an auto-include level and running less than a full Troupe is an intriguing idea that doesn't take away the strength of +1 Burst.

    There are a lot of Faction defining units that got stronger like Grenzer MM MSR and Perseus, or cheaper like the Hacker Zondnautica that are going to be on more tables in N4. In N3 we had trouble putting a lot of our best tools on the table at the same time, and it got a little bit easier in N4.

    It feels like TJC got more DZ defense with this update, but Alpha Striking could still be our glaring weakness. Good news is we are so fast we can hit pretty hard ourselves when starting as Player 1.

    If I have one complaint it's that we didn't see more proliferation of some of the order skills. Lt level 2 or Tactical Awareness are going to be "meta" skills and it's a little frustrating to have to start reactively versus armies with nearly 20 orders, of which you can only deny 2, when we can get realistically only get 14-16 and even that's a stretch. Time will tell if this is a major disadvantage, we do have some excellent tools to start reactively now, that either didn't exist before, or we couldn't always afford to field.
     
    #83 jfunkd, Oct 7, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
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  4. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    I agree with a lot of you assessment!

    One thing I want to point out though, is while Mary is pretty vulnerable to KHDs, the Interventor is basically invulnerable if they hack through a firewall. Effective BTS 12 on 14’s is pretty good. Also it seems like Mary is the only Trinity(AP) in the game. I don’t know if I will be able to leave the HD+ out of my fireteams for that Sixth Sense. (Assuming RAW Stealth will be fixed to work against non-SS hackers.)
     
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  5. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
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    Everything got better I think, in TJC. But the thing is, will Burst MODs of Fireteam stay the same? I thought the B5 restriction was an unwritten rule which is strongly adhered by CB.
     
  6. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    It seems quite intentional to have the KB hit B6. The Yan Huo profiles were already changed to prevent them from reaching B6 in Active or B5 in Reactive.
     
  7. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    And Ko Dali's Assault pistols on her FTO profile. Nomad favoritism? or absolute minimal addition of B6 so it hurts less if they decide it shouldn't be a thing?
     
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  8. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
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    Oooh.. So they've limited FTO options only to Multi HMG and Missles. I see.

    If then, KB might be the best Core trooper of TJC. Mimetism -3, B6 HMG, shoots with BS 16? JEEESUS!
     
  9. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    But is running it as a core worth it? running a haris with it, a HM and a wildcard of your choice may be better (personally leaning towards the FO grenzer).
     
  10. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
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    Hmm. Can I ask you the reason? I've been just thinking that the Core Fireteam bonuses are an absolute advantage, especially the BS +3 bonus.
     
    #90 Ugin, Oct 8, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  11. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    It pretty much boils down to is it worth burning your core slot on a distraction carnifex.
    A linked kriza is going to draw so much hatred and attention that I'd be surprised if it survived past your opponent's first turn.
     
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  12. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    I need to play it. Seems that it will be fun.

    A lot of things become a little better: interventors in secs, grenzers wildcats, kriza haris, etc. Mostly of the good things are the fireteam options. HM got cheaper like almost all HI, the same as zondnautica. Puppets got a sidegrade, so we will need to play them to see, but I like a lot that they don't die so easilly to a random grenade. New MSV1 rules and grenzer profiles help against WB, is the most expensive "sniper+friends" FT, but seems that will be effective. New cheerkillers and vostok bring new ways of using the faction, are the things that can be more impactful, but I need to play them a lot before

    but because almost all of these things are not so impactful, I don't thing TJC will get much better compared to other armies that got mostly the same.

    there are a few things I don't like: kriza got nerfed changing the -3 to mimetism, and there is still the possibility that the +1B will be nerfed too, but it retained its costs, which is weird when other awesome HI got better and cheaper! And in hacking, I don't think that TJC got better. The overall nerf brough some discounts, but both interventors and mary got a smaller discount than other hackers, so they pay more. I don't like also that persueus needs to loose superjump when joining HM, because it renders it to a HM FT without HM shenaningans

    In overall, I think TJC will continue in the same place as late n3: near the top of the mid tier, but fun. But maybe after playing it a bit I see it different. I still think is too soon to make definitive opinions.
     
  13. Xince

    Xince Member

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    I mostly agree with the points, hackers don't feel like really better/more versatile than they felt,but getting spotlight in ARO is also a strong support feature for them.
    Time will tell if our "hacking supremacy" will remain.

    So sad for Perseus super jump though.

    Also KB was mostly nerfed imho, even though lots of people Scream about the B6 thing. The loss of fullauto hurts really i think, mimetism doesn't even compare to it. That being said, it's a really good HI nonetheless and doesn't feel weak anyway.
    I think people complaining about the B6 still think it has full auto, or they did not realise yet that mimetism is a downgrade, coupled to the fact that in a HM Core they will not like having to pull that heavyweight KB :(

    But mostly i like New things, grenzers <3 ans how we feel right now
     
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  14. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    Hacking is way less versatile, but more inherently strong with the focus on HI/TAGs. Also remember with Oblivion, most HDs stand a strong chance against KHDs in the active, especially Mary. Funnily enough, the B3 Oblivion is probably stronger than the AP Trinity in taking down other hackers. Hacking is going to be a lot like cat and mouse, with both sides wanting to only get close enough in the active, unless you have repeaters up and multiple hackers available to ARO.
     
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  15. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Good assessment @ldgif . I don't particularly like this much-shallower hacking game. It's very rock-paper-scissors.

    Firewall on all your hackers will help a lot at least, as does having 3+ of them so that the AROs are brutal. Good thing we can now run Fairy Dust on hackers as well as HI and TAGs (although only one of those categories at once, but we have the HM tinbots to keep our HI walled).
     
    #95 Savnock, Oct 8, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  16. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    This is why you are probably going to see repeaters pushed aggressively up the table as opposed to the aggressively positioned hackers in N3. If you force them to fight back through your repeater things get real uncomfortable for them real quick.
     
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  17. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Point, but even with a -3 Firewall my money's on a KHD attacking with Trinity rather than an HD defending with Oblivion/Carbonite. Putting those repeaters in the midfield is still suicidal if you don't have a plan to save your basic hackers. Only multiple AROs will really save your neck.

    Rock/paper/scissors. Not a very fun outcome for what had previously been a system where an HD, properly supported, could go on the offensive, and HD+s were often great on their own.
     
  18. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    Played the Puppetmaster with a single Puppet last night. I counter-deployed a Fiday with the Minelayer + BSG, then proceeded to misplay it. :(

    Made me realize though that if you played them more like a Peripheral: Sync that TJC basically has a diet GdA now. In the rare circumstances where you'd get both the PM and the Red Fury puppet in range on the same target you're throwing 8 dice at it, and probably the puppet's 5 dice would be unopposed if the target shoots back. I'm not sure there is another model or action that makes that many BS attacks on one target.

    The BSG Puppet can force a dodge or shoot the PM and eat auto-hits when shooting the same target.

    This is most definitely an intriguing option.
     
    #98 jfunkd, Oct 9, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  19. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    See, I highly disagree with your assessment to be frank. If they are going through one of our repeaters, not only will they have a -3, but multiple hackers will be AROing them. Even if they are all HD’s, Oblivion not only will isolate the KHD, but also de-activate their KHD. If someone wants to trade hackers, go ahead? Putting repeaters in the midfield is the safest way to protect our Hackers.
     
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  20. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    While the Puppetmaster isn’t exactly tough, the combo can definitely be nasty if played correctly. A few of my lists have a PM with 1 puppetbot and I want to try it. So many options and not enough time.
     
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